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Stereophiles editor Jim Austin publicly disagreeing with Kal Rubinson

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Killingbeans

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Look at those Danley monstrosities that just came out:
55-B089-A9-95-EF-476-F-A7-D9-C56-FE847-A2-E3.jpg

They should sell an acoustically transparent set of paper bags for these - one for the speakers and one for you in case the ones on the speaker fall off.

Is that the final design of the Hyperion? Looks very PA/utilitarian. Almost brutalism. I know a few goths who'd might love them.

The old concept renders weren't pretty either, but at least they had a bit of fun 'killer robot' aesthetics :D

Hyperion-Rendering.jpg


It's just interesting to me that in all these audio reviews which are full of subjective nonsense, the level of discourse on the subject of the design and decor-function of the speakers is so bad. Maybe I'm biased as a design professional, but most of the commentary I see about appearance of gear basically says 'it looks cheap' or 'it looks expensive'. Ironically, a room full of random expensive gear doesn't look expensive, it looks cheap.

That's one of the things that really baffles me about high-end audio. I often see the old Braun designs being mentioned, but the top dollar brands hardly ever seem to do collaborations with highly respected industrial designers. Instead we get "sculptures" that look like something from a 3nd grade arts and crafts class, trying to picture the concept of pomp and circumstance.
 

restorer-john

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That's one of the things that really baffles me about high-end audio. I often see the old Braun designs being mentioned, but the top dollar brands hardly ever seem to do collaborations with highly respected industrial designers. Instead we get "sculptures" that look like something from a 3nd grade arts and crafts class, trying to picture the concept of pomp and circumstance.

What do you think of the Monitor Audio Concept 50?
 

Axo1989

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Is that the final design of the Hyperion? Looks very PA/utilitarian. Almost brutalism. I know a few goths who'd might love them.

The old concept renders weren't pretty either, but at least they had a bit of fun 'killer robot' aesthetics :D

View attachment 242697



That's one of the things that really baffles me about high-end audio. I often see the old Braun designs being mentioned, but the top dollar brands hardly ever seem to do collaborations with highly respected industrial designers. Instead we get "sculptures" that look like something from a 3nd grade arts and crafts class, trying to picture the concept of pomp and circumstance.

Ahh yes I kinda like the original concept.

In terms of collaboration with designers, for sure. One thing I didn't realise until recently is that Genelec collaborated with designer Harri Koskinen on their iconic designs. Nice work! And I totally want his Block lamp (which isn't even hideously expensive).

image2-1260-BlockLamp-Lifestyle_1800x1800.jpg
 
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617

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What do you think of the Monitor Audio Concept 50?

Here's a good way to evaluate that speaker. Get a copy of Architectural Digest and find a room that these wouldn't look out of place in.

I do kind of like them though.
 

preload

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Many, many years ago a physics professor (Richard Feynman) I happened to audit for a class or two made some excellent points about how there is really no need to "dumb down" definitions for lay people, or young students in this case. He provided several examples of incorrect definitions in grade/high school texts and how to reword them to be correct without needing a college degree. It was enlightening and pretty funny. I think he was trying to get a local school board to use good texts instead of the dumbed-down junk they had; not sure he managed to pull that off.

In this case I tend to disagree with Stereophile and feel they should just use the correct terms and definitions. They can always refer to a glossary or some such.
And this is how the USA ranks internationally on a standardized test given to 15 year old high school students (PISA 2018)
Math: #37 in the world (the next highest 3 countries were Hungary, Lithuania, and Spain)
Science: #18 in the world (the next highest 3 countries were Australia, Germany, and the Netherlands)
Go USA!
 
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Killingbeans

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What do you think of the Monitor Audio Concept 50?

That I hope they wouldn't become conscious and kill me while I sleep. Not the worst I've seen, but personally I'd by far prefer the Hyperion monoliths. They don't scream as much for attention.
 

Timcognito

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And this is how the USA ranks internationally on a standardized test given to 15 year old high school students (PISA 2018)
Math: #37 in the world (the next highest 3 countries were Hungary, Lithuania, and Spain)
Science: #18 in the world (the next highest 3 countries were Australia, Germany, and the Netherlands)
Go USA!
This is because our education system is among the best in the world for those who can afford it just like our medical system. Those who can't, suffer and bring down the average. I have been in many places on four continents as a medical device start up engineer/manager/company founder. If you have severe and complicated issue you want to be treated in the USA if you can afford it. Our universities are full of affluent domestic and foreign students clamoring to get in. Its sad but true
 

MattHooper

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That I hope they wouldn't become conscious and kill me while I sleep. Not the worst I've seen, but personally I'd by far prefer the Hyperion monoliths. They don't scream as much for attention.

Indeed:


MONITOR AUDIO SPEAKERS.png




PROMETHEUS.png


You might be able to fend off one with a pitchfork. But a stereo pair? I don't like your chances!
 

MattHooper

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I believe you for the content creators. Even for audio reviewers (or mostly as some with their own websites now are creators and the whole ball of wax with an obvious eye to ads). But those running the distribution system and places like Stereophile do appear to function as if the real customers are advertisers. The people they manage to put eyes on content is the real product. The gear or stories are just the way they "recruit" product which can be sold.

I understand nothing is really free, and business has to work like business or they go broke. Some businesses that had a passion for the content slowly morph into being about money and happen to have experience in some niche business to make it pay off. Not the same thing. The Playlist short series on Netflix tells a story that is a good example of that in the music business.

TAS is a good audio magazine example. It originally did not have ads. Subscription rates were rather high, but the reader was the customer for the content. Then they took ads, but it still seemed to be handled as the reader being the customer. It never made enough money in those ways. In time it became about the ads and advertisers are the real customers. Stereophile took a similar path as well. They made more money than when it was the other way. One of those places where the eventual economic success killed what was really the value of the product. It is hard tight rope to stay on for very long for most business.

Oh I certainly don't think we need to ignore the tug-of-war that advertising incentives play for commercial entities, magazines or whatever.

As I said, I just think it's good to maintain a sense of balance in terms of "explaining" the content we actually consume (TV, movies, audio magazines for those who read them).

For instance: Soundstage takes advertisers. Well, what does that mean exactly? Does it mean that what you read in the reviews is so influenced by the advertisers that the motivation was simply producing add copy to please advertisers, and so all reviews are untrustworthy in that regard? I don't think so, and as I said those I've known in the industry aren't motivated that way. For instance, I was just talking with my good friend who reviews equipment for Soundstagel. We were discussing some products he reviewed recently (and often as not he solicits the products based on what he's interested in, just as I did when I reviewed a long time ago). I've visited while he was reviewing those products, I've seen his very honest enthusiasm. He didn't have a clue whether the manufacturer advertised in soundstage or not when he wrote those enthusiastic reviews.

So for me, yeah sure there's some dance with advertisers that any mag has to go through. However the review items are chosen, if a magazine is successful in maintaining a readership, it is by definition covering items the readers like to read about. Maybe a manufacturer gets their equipment reviewed "because that manufacturer advertises in the magazine." Maybe not. Maybe a piece of gear is chosen without any advertising being the case, but the writer likes it so much, the great review compells the advertisor to start putting adds in the magazine, to keep their profile going. Or maybe not. Ultimately my concern is more about whether any particular review, especially one that may interest me, does a good job of describing the sound or not (and isn't simply directed by what the advertiser wants them to write, but is the writer's honest impressions).
 

Galliardist

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Oh ok. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I really do not see why one has to spend lots of money to enjoy music and audio quality need not be a factor. My wife is a living example.

She has her favourite singers and songs. She enjoys listening it from her phone speakers!! Eeks! For her, she is more interested in the lyrics (the meaning of it) and the way the song was sung ( tune I guess?). She is not interested in how it sound (as in audio quality). When I played it on my system, she did admit it did sound a bit better but she didn't care. She still prefers her phone.

I think i can safely say she is not alone and there are many out there like her.
Maybe it's not such a bad decision, either.

When I was auditioning equipment last year I had one rather interesting experience. I was sat with another older person. The salesperson was trying to sell me a Rega CD player, and plugged it into their million-dollar-system. Full range speakers, kilowatt amps, cables that individually cost more than the total for the system in the other listening room I should have been in. So, we were listening to the beginning of a recording of Dvorak New World Symphony (the Pentatone recording IIRC). I presume we were supposed to be impressed that they had this stuff.

What a mess. Overblown one note bass. Every part blurred into another, no bodies of instruments playing different parts. the violin melodies well, sort of there if you listened hard. And the tympani, just no..... it was the worst audio experience I'd had in decades.

The other guy got up, turned off the mess, and basically said "no, it doesn't sound like that". Then he pulled out his phone and played the same piece on it. Hardly "audio perfection", but you could at least tell that it was music!
 

amper42

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Oh I certainly don't think we need to ignore the tug-of-war that advertising incentives play for commercial entities, magazines or whatever.

As I said, I just think it's good to maintain a sense of balance in terms of "explaining" the content we actually consume (TV, movies, audio magazines for those who read them).

For instance: Soundstage takes advertisers. Well, what does that mean exactly? Does it mean that what you read in the reviews is so influenced by the advertisers that the motivation was simply producing add copy to please advertisers, and so all reviews are untrustworthy in that regard? I don't think so, and as I said those I've known in the industry aren't motivated that way. For instance, I was just talking with my good friend who reviews equipment for Soundstagel. We were discussing some products he reviewed recently (and often as not he solicits the products based on what he's interested in, just as I did when I reviewed a long time ago). I've visited while he was reviewing those products, I've seen his very honest enthusiasm. He didn't have a clue whether the manufacturer advertised in soundstage or not when he wrote those enthusiastic reviews.

So for me, yeah sure there's some dance with advertisers that any mag has to go through. However the review items are chosen, if a magazine is successful in maintaining a readership, it is by definition covering items the readers like to read about. Maybe a manufacturer gets their equipment reviewed "because that manufacturer advertises in the magazine." Maybe not. Maybe a piece of gear is chosen without any advertising being the case, but the writer likes it so much, the great review compells the advertisor to start putting adds in the magazine, to keep their profile going. Or maybe not. Ultimately my concern is more about whether any particular review, especially one that may interest me, does a good job of describing the sound or not (and isn't simply directed by what the advertiser wants them to write, but is the writer's honest impressions).

Reviews and advertising are always started with the best intentions. The problem is reality gets in the way. You ask to review a product you are interested in. You love the product and write a detailed review of how it's a great gadget. Then another similar item is sent your way that has a large ad coming with it - and for some reason you don't really like the product. It has flaws that make it not that usable for you or you like something better. But now, if you express those feelings in writing it either kills the advertising from the company in the future or maybe even this issue. There is no way around it. When you accept advertising it's an automatic conflict of interest. Reviewers don't like everything they review and when they don't like it enough usually the review simply disappears rather than telling the truth. Or the article is slanted the best way to make the product seem of value. It's impossible when dollars are exchanged to always say exactly what you discovered good and bad. Readers should understand the conflict. Companies should stop trying to sugar coat the conflict or say it really doesn't exist. That's BS.
 

Kal Rubinson

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Reviews and advertising are always started with the best intentions. The problem is reality gets in the way. You ask to review a product you are interested in. You love the product and write a detailed review of how it's a great gadget. Then another similar item is sent your way that has a large ad coming with it - and for some reason you don't really like the product. It has flaws that make it not that usable for you or you like something better. But now, if you express those feelings in writing it either kills the advertising from the company in the future or maybe even this issue. There is no way around it.
Yes, there is a way around it. There is no reason one is obligated to review a product that "is sent your way that has a large ad coming with it" if it was not requested. Just say no thanks.
 

Beave

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Ugh.

'Member JHL' wins the bloviation contest there, hands down, while 'Jack L' is just doggedly clueless, and Editor 'Jim Austin' knows better than to bite the feeding hand.

Bravo to skeptiKal, though, for threading the needle.

Is it a coincidence that the JHL who posts comments on Stereophile reviews shares the same initials as Jon H Lane, of Chane Loudspeakers?
Is it a coincidence that both JHL and Jon H Lane have the exact same writing style?
Am I insinuating that they are in fact the same person?
 

Sal1950

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The old concept renders weren't pretty either, but at least they had a bit of fun 'killer robot' aesthetics
I don't find them exceptionally ugly but then I really don't care much what they look like, I care about the sound.
Todays better speakers are mostly all furniture grade and I wonder what percentage of the price goes towards their beautiful wood and finishing?
I would be nice if a few of the builders would offer a D grade cabinet and put all the money into the sound.
I had no problem at all in 1979 when I purchased my Klipsch La Scala's in raw birch plywood that I finished myself.
They were also offered for about the same cost just sprayed in a flat black.
Either sounded exactly the same as one 50% more expensive as one in pattern matched cherry or walnut.

7f29fb3f7c009bf1557cbd656e9b85af_635042177854330000_medium.jpg
 

antcollinet

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I didn't say your post to which I was answering was emotional. But you can't deny it's a lot of those here.
A really strange pair of statements to waste two out of your 4 posts in 2 1/2 years on. :p
 
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