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A no-taking-sides, no judgment classification of the 4 types of Audiophile. "The audiophile bestiary".

birdog1960

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You need to look at @birdog1960 s post I first replied to (and the post he replied to) to understand the context of my reply:

Implying that accuracy cannot be achieved. My statement is simply that, perfect reproduction of what is in the room is not what we are trying to be accurate to - Reproduction equipment can only be accurate to what is in the recording.
what if I have a bootleg tapes from dead concerts that i recorded on a quality tape deck from my seat without the "benefit" of a sound engineer? Gonna recreate the experience pretty well, non?> btw, not really bootleg as the dead allowed it.
 

birdog1960

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You have a point -- up to a point. But there has to be some kind of general agreement as to what 'good audio' is. Otherwise, why bother with reviews and measurements at all? Why not say to hell with it and just go out and buy a Bose Wave Radio and be done with it? Probably many do. There will always be disagreement over what is the BEST audio (this is a very healthy thing). But there should be some standards and principles that we can ALL agree on that makes a piece of gear 'good audio'. I mean, we would all take the KEF R3 over the Sony SCSS5, wouldn't we?
it's not a dualist question. eg should you try to make your room as sonically conducive as possible without building an anechoic room? of course. Should you get equipment that can differentiate a Martin from a Taylor if you can afford it? Of course. Would it have been a good idea to record a show with the best available affordable device at the time? Of course. But it's a spectrum not a data POINT.
 

Axo1989

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Who cares what "sounds good"? That depends on the listener and any psychological baggage (prejudice, confirmation bias, etc.) that person may carry along and the room of course and the recording too.

Audio gear quality means a single thing - to what extent does the system alter the sound without all that psychological baggage, room effects, etc? Lack of coloration is all that matters. The best way to check that is measuring it. If you don't like accurate sound, suit yourself, you are not getting good audio.

Spinorama with Kippel is as good as you will get.

I think listening to the Klippel running it's routine could sound good—as a fan of Autechre—but I reckon the repeated sweeps could be a bit maddening, so maybe some more work on the composition is called for. But you could pick up some great samples to work with.

I certainly use published specification and measurements (including third party, obviously) to select equipment and in-situ measurements for system setup (including the room as part of the system, also obviously).

But if the rule of thumb cited here—that speaker measurements get you 70-80% of the way to knowing how they will sound, and assuming the remaining fraction is more than simply the room/placement characteristics—then I expect to listen to a speaker also to know if its less obvious characteristics are going to do it for me.

Now I don't expect you to necessarily care what sounds good to me—or vice versa—but I do, axiomatically.
 
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MattHooper

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You have a point -- up to a point. But there has to be some kind of general agreement as to what 'good audio' is. Otherwise, why bother with reviews and measurements at all? Why not say to hell with it and just go out and buy a Bose Wave Radio and be done with it? Probably many do. There will always be disagreement over what is the BEST audio (this is a very healthy thing). But there should be some standards and principles that we can ALL agree on that makes a piece of gear 'good audio'. I mean, we would all take the KEF R3 over the Sony SCSS5, wouldn't we?

See post #174 :)
 

antcollinet

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what if I have a bootleg tapes from dead concerts that i recorded on a quality tape deck from my seat without the "benefit" of a sound engineer? Gonna recreate the experience pretty well, non?> btw, not really bootleg as the dead allowed it.
Why don't you do it, and see? (I just love the idea of you using a tape deck BTW)

Report back, perhaps post a small sample, so we can all hear your mastery of sound recording. ;)
 

birdog1960

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Why don't you do it, and see? (I just love the idea of you using a tape deck BTW)

Report back, perhaps post a small sample, so we can all hear your mastery of sound recording. ;)
. Not mine but sounds pretty good to me. Pretty sure I was at the Syracuse show that year (kinda hazy). Guess it wasn't your thing but thousands upon thousands of deadheads made and shared bootlegs and many we're very good quality. Those recorded on Nakamichi tape decks we're especially valued. Not surprised it wouldn't meet your lofty standards but people were actually having FUN and producing some nice recordings that they ENJOYED. btw, check what a top of the line, vintage Nakamichi is worth. Somebody values them.
 

fpitas

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antcollinet

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. Not mine but sounds pretty good to me. Pretty sure I was at the Syracuse show that year (kinda hazy). Guess it wasn't your thing but thousands upon thousands of deadheads made and shared bootlegs and many we're very good quality. Those recorded on Nakamichi tape decks we're especially valued. Not surprised it wouldn't meet your lofty standards but people were actually having FUN and producing some nice recordings that they ENJOYED. btw, check what a top of the line, vintage Nakamichi is worth. Somebody values them.

I don't doubt that making and sharing these was fun, and probably, as a memory of something you attended, enjoyable to listen to. But the recording quality, of this example at least, is terrible, and I hope, no reflection of the sound quality you experienced live
 

fpitas

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We seem to have devolved to asking whether bad quality recordings can be enjoyable.
 

antcollinet

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We seem to have devolved to asking whether bad quality recordings can be enjoyable.
I thought I was discussing the metrics for defining a 'good' (HIFI) reproduction system. Still I guess everything can be subjective - including perception of what a discussion is about. :D
 

fpitas

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I thought I was discussing the metrics for defining a 'good' (HIFI) reproduction system. Still I guess everything can be subjective - including perception of what a discussion is about. :D
Oh, you're on topic. But others keep saying that distorted sound can sound good. Which I won't argue, but it's not really the point.
 

birdog1960

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Oh, you're on topic. But others keep saying that distorted sound can sound good. Which I won't argue, but it's not really the point.
isn't the point of the OP that different audiophiles (sound lovers) have disparate values?
 

fpitas

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isn't the point of the OP that different audiophiles (sound lovers) have disparate values?
He's a salesman, so I would guess his aim is to understand those who might buy stuff. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it may not be meaningful to the rest of us. The discussion had moved on to what hi-fi is or isn't after that.
 

birdog1960

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He's a salesman, so I would guess his aim is to understand those who might buy stuff. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it may not be meaningful to the rest of us. The discussion had moved on to what hi-fi is or isn't after that.
amazing how you've moved to stratify and quantify audiophiles by their preferences and vocations. I'm guessing electrical engineer is the most prestigious in your algorithm? Personally, I'd rank musician much higher. Musician/ master electrical engineer the highest?
 

fpitas

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amazing how you've moved to stratify and quantify audiophiles by their preferences and vocations. I'm guessing electrical engineer is the most prestigious in your algorithm? Personally, I'd rank musician much higher
Thanks for the insults. Sometimes I forget I'm on the internet here.
 

ahofer

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birdog1960

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we were driving thru Northern Virginia yesterday and saw a sign for an auction of seized property that included a Picasso and Dali (was also interested to see the Patek Phillipe and Lamborghini). Even if I could afford them, I'd probably opt for a quality print rather than an original because they really belong in a museum imo. Doesn't make me less of an art lover....and one can find excellent prints at reasonable prices. I'd search for the best price to quality print. That might well include a scientific analysis of the print. And I'd probably be more inclined to buy a subaru brz or its toyota sibling if shopping for a sports car despite much poorer specs than the lamborghini. I think it would be just as much fun.
 
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pau

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Fine, and I agree, But that's not high fidelity.

Interesting, The topic or statement was thrown that no one get good sound from gear if its not accurate.

Are you limiting your music experience for only the various songs recorded with 24bit and so on? After all normal living conditions you are hard to find differences after 12bits and there definately is a statement to be made for good sound doesnt need that much. People enjoyed good sound even 100 years ago. I would agree if you would stated "thats not Hyper ultrasonic fidelity with limited records to enjoy.''
 

ahofer

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because they really belong in a museum imo.
Except there isn't enough space to display them. Bit of a conundrum.

 
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fpitas

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Interesting, The topic or statement was thrown that no one get good sound from gear if its not accurate.

Are you limiting your music experience for only the various songs recorded with 24bit and so on? After all normal living conditions you are hard to find differences after 12bits and there definately is a statement to be made for good sound doesnt need that much. People enjoyed good sound even 100 years ago. I would agree if you would stated "thats not Hyper ultrasonic fidelity with limited records to enjoy.''
At some point it comes down to attitude. If I settle for an old cassette Walkman with the 2" speaker thumping against the stops, I may enjoy the heck out of it. But few would qualify that as hi-fi.
 
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