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center for genelec 8341a, is center that important for movies?

theshade

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Instead of getting genelec 8341a for my center with genelec 8030c fronts, I kinda ended up with genelec 8341a's as fronts with now the 8030c's as surrounds. As much as I would like getting a genelec 8351b as center, cost is prohibitive. I currently have an infinity 3 way center.

I get that flat frequency response and good directivity is best. I would even characterize myself as strongly on the objectivist camp. That is why I got the genelecs and even my previous speaker choices were based on what is good according to harman research. I also understand that the center is the one that plays the most during movies and sound may change or not match when panned. However is being faithful or neutral that important for movies? If I were to go upmixed music then I would want to have at least an 8341a as center, but for movies?

If I have no choice but to get a better center than the infinity, what are the possible choices that are cheaper than the 8351b? I can put it behind the projector screen. Center listening position is 11 to 12 feet away. My fronts are just 6 feet away. Speakers are crossed over to 3 subs(2 svs pc2000pro, 1 diy) with minidsp handling room correction so I guess that the speakers I will get will have some breathing room. Giving an idea of my spl needs, I have never seen my 8030c clipping indicator much less my new 8341a. I am looking at the following choices:

1. Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 UC52
2. Kef q250c
3. Genelec 8030c
4. Neumann kh120a

Or should I just go for broke it is end game anyway: 8351b
 

Peluvius

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Why not another 8341 as a centre? I would want to brand match the front three at least (for tonality), the 8030 won’t cut it As it’s too small.
 

sweetchaos

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Without thinking too much, I'd get the 8341 to match the LR.
8351 is end-game for sure, but way over your budget, so maybe buy once, cry once? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But otherwise, to save 35% from 8341, Genelec 8050 (not the 8350 since you're already using correction by MiniDSP).
Just make sure you're within the vertical directivity window.
Vertical directivity is (-30.0°, 20.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.

The center speaker is the MOST important speaker in a home theater, so you don't want to skimp out on power there.
This shows that the center speaker is usually 3db louder than the LR speakers.
index.php

source at 13min
 
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theshade

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Why not another 8341 as a centre? I would want to brand match the front three at least (for tonality), the 8030 won’t cut it As it’s too small.

Primarily price considerations.
 
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theshade

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Without thinking too much, I'd get the 8341 to match the LR.
8351 is end-game for sure, but way over your budget, so maybe buy once, cry once? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But otherwise, to save 35% from 8341, Genelec 8050 (not the 8350 since you're already using correction by MiniDSP).
Just make sure you're within the vertical directivity window.
Vertical directivity is (-30.0°, 20.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.

The center speaker is the MOST important speaker in a home theater, so you don't want to skimp out on power there.
This shows that the center speaker is usually 3db louder than the LR speakers.
index.php

source at 13min

:( seems 8351 is really the answer i am looking for but would not want to admit. What about the elac? Is it too far in performance? I see that it ranks high in a lot of price brackets in your own list.
 
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theshade

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Presumably you'll want the speaker on its side for under your screen, in which case I'd say the IN-8v2 until such time you get a 8351.

Many thanks for the tool. I always look at the measurements and the ranking at that site hence the 8030c and now the 8341a. But I did not know that you can find similar tonality! And did not think of the Kali cause I usually just look at those above 6 preference score except for the centers. Thanks!
 
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theshade

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Presumably you'll want the speaker on its side for under your screen, in which case I'd say the IN-8v2 until such time you get a 8351.
I'm confused. I thought genelec 8351b would be best but based on that tool aside from similar 8341a, 8331 and kali lp 6 are the closest in tonality? It can be vertical cause i will put it behind the screen.
 

Peluvius

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Primarily price considerations.

You could use an 8341, that would be cheaper than the 8351 and still match your L/R. I use an 8341 as a centre at 3m and it is excellent.
 

tifune

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I'm confused. I thought genelec 8351b would be best but based on that tool aside from similar 8341a, 8331 and kali lp 6 are the closest in tonality? It can be vertical cause i will put it behind the screen.

Frankly, I was a bit surprised myself. I thought for sure the Kali IN series would be closer. Regardless, at 12' listening distance you have your work cut out for you no matter which route you take. I hope your room is dialed in very well!
The 8260 (if you can find one) might be the sweet spot between cost, tonality, and SPL/extension required for that distance. If you're in the US and you find a pair, let me know and maybe I'll take the other :)

I actually use a Kef r3 for center with my 8341's, it works great but I'm only a 1m. Behind a screen, at 12', you'd probably be looking at a R7/R11 (which can be purchased individually) to hit SPL needed for Marvel movie center channel duty. 3 subs will certainly help your situation!
 
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theshade

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Frankly, I was a bit surprised myself. I thought for sure the Kali IN series would be closer. Regardless, at 12' listening distance you have your work cut out for you no matter which route you take. I hope your room is dialed in very well!
The 8260 (if you can find one) might be the sweet spot between cost, tonality, and SPL/extension required for that distance. If you're in the US and you find a pair, let me know and maybe I'll take the other :)

I actually use a Kef r3 for center with my 8341's, it works great but I'm only a 1m. Behind a screen, at 12', you'd probably be looking at a R7/R11 (which can be purchased individually) to hit SPL needed for Marvel movie center channel duty. 3 subs will certainly help your situation!
I am from the Philippines so prices are generally higher. The kefs would be great but I cannot buy a single speaker here and placement issues limit me to bookshelves as opposed to floor standers. I think I should not fixate too much on preference ratings and on eyeballing the measurements with just my basic understanding. Even erin answers in his replies to questions in his videos that the In- is the better speaker when compared to the LP even if the preference score and my eyeballing of the measurements says otherwise.

While the genelec coaxials are probably the one and done choice, prices range from about $3000 to $4000. The practical choice for me is probably between jbl 308 and kali in8 even if they are overpriced at around $400 to $600. I am leaning towards the In-8 though just because they are coaxial. Or I could just wait and get genelec later as I originally planned but what really triggered my desire to get a center now is that I was worried that prices would be worse as our currency seems to be weakening against other currencies.
 
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theshade

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Update: I already ordered genelec 8341a as center. I contacted genelec and this is their reply from their R&D acoustician:

"You will get best imaging with identical monitors, so 8341A for LCR. Because their phase response is identical. So 8341A is indeed recommended model for your use, despite they would be on different distance."
 

NTK

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sarumbear

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Primarily price considerations.
I am confused. 8351 is more expensive than 8341, why not use the latter and match your alarm?
 

sarumbear

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is this a single person setup?
If so, you actualy don't need a center
What you are saying is that one of the soundtrack channels is not required. :eek:
 

Alexium

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What you are saying is that one of the soundtrack channels is not required. :eek:
No, that's not what he's saying. If you turn off center channel in the AVR settings, it will be mixed into L+R.
I used center channel for a while, but then I turned it off because for music it was degrading the soundstage too much, and for movies removing it didn't really make the experience worse. This was with center spread ON - still not enough "spread".
 

sarumbear

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No, that's not what he's saying. If you turn off center channel in the AVR settings, it will be mixed into L+R.
I used the term channel for a reason. You may be hearing the audio of the channel but not from the correct position. You are refining a system which has been standard for decades.

I used center channel for a while, but then I turned it off because for music it was degrading the soundstage too much…
If that music is stereo there is no centre channel. if it’s surround than the above applies.
 

Alexium

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I used the term channel for a reason. You may be hearing the audio of the channel but not from the correct position. You are refining a system which has been standard for decades.
That system has been devised for multi-seating situations, mostly for cinemas and later for home cinemas (still with multiple seats). It's certainly not needed as much in a smaller room with a single listening position in front of a TV.

If that music is stereo there is no centre channel. if it’s surround than the above applies.
You have a point: if the material is originally mixed for the center channel, it sounds reasonable. But my point of pain was listening to stereo up-mixed (Dolby Digital+). Too much of the soundstage is squeezed into the center, even with spread on. And, as I said, I found no reason to keep the center for movies after trying center-less. Although I do intend to revisit this topic after building a better center channel speaker. I'd be more inclined to keep it if it could be turned off and on with a single button click.
 
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