• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Worst measuring loudspeaker?

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
It was not my intention to create an alien robot. Yet, here we are.
 

poxymoron

Senior Member
Joined
May 7, 2021
Messages
459
Likes
588
About 30 years ago I decided to do a search for speakers I would be happy with for the rest of my life.
I genuinely hate evaluating equipment when I could be listening to music and I didn’t want to do it any more.
At the time I had a pair of Sonus Fabre Extremas and Apogee Diva with DAX active crossover.

Anyway the opinion of the high end magazines seemed to be that the best speaker ever was the original Wilson Audio WAMM and I discovered a French dealer near Paris had a used “pair” (they comprise 4 towers) so I arranged to go for a listen.
They were in a huge room which looked like it was formed by roofing over the courtyard of a U shaped house. Sidewall reflections were not a possibility…

Anyway, I was unimpressed but amazed to see they also had a pair of the original Goldmund Apologues - the ones they only ever made 50 pairs of - also in the room and also the slightly smaller Goldmund Analogue.
I listened to them whilst I was there and felt they had the most realistic instrumental timbre of any speakers I had ever heard. I actually preferred the Analogue, probably because it had fewer drivers to interfere with each other.

I nearly bought the Analogue there and then but Goldmund were about to release their new metal enclosure line, the Epilog, so I waited until the first module of the Epilogue was available for audition, it was a couple of years iirc..
In the end my short list was the Epilog, the Analogue and also the B&W Nautilus, I loved the look of that, and still do.

The nearest they still make to mine is the SATYA, but that is DSP active, mine aren’t.

Anyway I ended up with the Epilog1 with Epilog 2 bass system and am still enjoying it every day.

I have listened to a fair few speakers since and still haven’t found any I would get my wallet out for.

The Epilogue 1 doesn’t have a waveguide, too old I suppose, but the tweeter is mounted in the same acoustic plane as the mid and has an absorbent block around it shaped to reduce vertical dispersion considerably and to match tweeter to mid at the crossover.
I've always had a soft spot for the Extremas. How did they perform?
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Incomparable. The manufacturers of the speaker models mentioned in the thread seem to have just randomly thrown speaker drivers into some random boxes and then put a damn high price tag on them.

But I am impressed by how it is even possible to get such bad speakers together. UNLESS the speaker manufacturers DELIBERATELY created them to have a FR that looks like it climbs high mountain, deep valleys?

Do the manufacturers for the models in the thread state dB deviations based on the frequency range of the speaker models? For example 45Hz-20KHz, +/- 3 dB? If they don't say anything about dB deviations (which is not correct), then at least they're not lying.
Many times I've seen people vastly improve those sorts of flaws by simple crossover changes. I guess that just makes the original design that much more puzzling.
 

DanielT

Major Contributor
Joined
Oct 10, 2020
Messages
4,750
Likes
4,631
Location
Sweden - Слава Україні
Many times I've seen people vastly improve those sorts of flaws by simple crossover changes. I guess that just makes the original design that much more puzzling.
Well, nowadays it's relatively easy to EQ a decent FR. At least on axes. EQ and FR off axes, maybe if the conditions are there.
Nothing can be done about distortion, at least not the distortion of the speaker elements themselves.

Having said that, if you buy expensive speakers, you should expect that the speaker manufacturer designed speakers with reasonable FR from the start. At least I think so. This is obviously not always the case, which is unfortunately clear if you read this thread.

Check the prices of these deformities of this so-called speakers, even worse sometimes this so-called "High End" speakers, incredible!
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,090
Location
a fortified compound
About 30 years ago I decided to do a search for speakers I would be happy with for the rest of my life.
I genuinely hate evaluating equipment when I could be listening to music and I didn’t want to do it any more.
At the time I had a pair of Sonus Fabre Extremas and Apogee Diva with DAX active crossover.

Anyway the opinion of the high end magazines seemed to be that the best speaker ever was the original Wilson Audio WAMM and I discovered a French dealer near Paris had a used “pair” (they comprise 4 towers) so I arranged to go for a listen.
They were in a huge room which looked like it was formed by roofing over the courtyard of a U shaped house. Sidewall reflections were not a possibility…

Anyway, I was unimpressed but amazed to see they also had a pair of the original Goldmund Apologues - the ones they only ever made 50 pairs of - also in the room and also the slightly smaller Goldmund Analogue.
I listened to them whilst I was there and felt they had the most realistic instrumental timbre of any speakers I had ever heard. I actually preferred the Analogue, probably because it had fewer drivers to interfere with each other.

I nearly bought the Analogue there and then but Goldmund were about to release their new metal enclosure line, the Epilog, so I waited until the first module of the Epilogue was available for audition, it was a couple of years iirc..
In the end my short list was the Epilog, the Analogue and also the B&W Nautilus, I loved the look of that, and still do.

The nearest they still make to mine is the SATYA, but that is DSP active, mine aren’t.

Anyway I ended up with the Epilog1 with Epilog 2 bass system and am still enjoying it every day.

I have listened to a fair few speakers since and still haven’t found any I would get my wallet out for.

The Epilogue 1 doesn’t have a waveguide, too old I suppose, but the tweeter is mounted in the same acoustic plane as the mid and has an absorbent block around it shaped to reduce vertical dispersion considerably and to match tweeter to mid at the crossover.
Are the Epilogs fully passive?

I've wanted to hear Goldmund loudspeakers before, but dealers seem loath to demonstrate them for someone who looks like a working man.
 

Doodski

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 9, 2019
Messages
20,745
Likes
20,756
Location
Canada
I've wanted to hear Goldmund loudspeakers before, but dealers seem loath to demonstrate them for someone who looks like a working man.
Find another salesperson that is not a snob and choosy.
 

fpitas

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 7, 2022
Messages
9,885
Likes
14,191
Location
Northern Virginia, USA
Very short-sighted of the salesman. I know a couple guys that could buy the store without thinking about it. They dress like the homeless.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,090
Location
a fortified compound
Very short-sighted of the salesman. I know a couple guys that could buy the store without thinking about it. They dress like the homeless.
Me too. Lots of them.
Haha ... so you want to hear Goldmund speakers but your principles get in the way? Quite the delimma.
Yes, I refuse to put on a $3500 suit to listen to a pair of speakers or otherwise signal my financial well-being.
 

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,804
Likes
2,807
Location
Sydney
Me too. Lots of them.

Yes, I refuse to put on a $3500 suit to listen to a pair of speakers or otherwise signal my financial well-being.

Subtly flashing your black Amex will work just as well. Still signalling, but you can just wear the polo.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,090
Location
a fortified compound
Subtly flashing your black Amex will work just as well. Still signalling, but you can just wear the polo.
The black Amex is incredibly rare even among people rich enough to have it. For most very wealthy people, it seems to offer poor value for money.

Around ten days ago, I was at a restaurant with nine other people, seven of whom have net worth in eight (or, perhaps in 3-4 cases, nine) figures. One of them flies private because that's the only way to get reasonably scheduled flights to his main home in Jackson Hole. I saw lots of platinum Amexes but no black ones.

I did see a black Amex once when, as a starving young person, I was slinging TVs at Best Buy. A customer wanted to pay for a Pioneer Kuro with his black Amex. (Yes, he wanted to pay for better blacks with a black Amex.) The manager eyed it and stepped in to do everything in his power to make sure that the customer did not use that card. The manager told me that the Amex Centurion card had an interchange rate that was approximately 3X those of other cards, which would wipe out much of the margin on the television--quite a blow when the card also made it impossible for us to sell an extended warranty.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,738
Likes
3,090
Location
a fortified compound
There you go: I did but see her passing by (our PM in my grandfather's day said that about Elizabeth II). Thanks for the story. :)
Sorry to all for the digression. To continue it, I have the stupid black metal Chase card that is a magnet for credit card thieves overseas but is actually a competitor to the Amex platinum and is not at all exclusive. I have never been able to pay for audio gear with that card.
 

Recluse-Animator

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2022
Messages
331
Likes
316
Subtly flashing your black Amex will work just as well. Still signalling, but you can just wear the polo.
Mr-Bean-Flashing-Credit-Card.jpg
 

Axo1989

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 9, 2022
Messages
2,804
Likes
2,807
Location
Sydney
Sorry to all for the digression. To continue it, I have the stupid black metal Chase card that is a magnet for credit card thieves overseas but is actually a competitor to the Amex platinum and is not at all exclusive. I have never been able to pay for audio gear with that card.

Well my Aussie NAB card is black but entirely pedestrian. I swapped a once-impressive gold Amex for the Qantas version (with fly-buy points) which I guess signals my demographic descent. Tried to buy a winch motor with it the other day but it doesn't fly in the lifting gear sector either. For pointless style I want the Apple card (also metal) don't think it's made the journey here though.
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom