Right, so you're saying the last 2 new units you bought are fine? So I guess you're just gonna keep one of them?
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Sennheiser HD560S Review (Headphone)
- Thread starter amirm
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deprogrammed
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I just picked these up refurbished for $99 directly from Sennheiser. (USA)
107 and change out the door, shipped.
www.sennheiser-hearing.com
107 and change out the door, shipped.
HD 560S Refurbished | Sennheiser US
Discover the unique acoustic performance of the HD 560S Refurbished Audiophile Headphones. ✓ Zero distortion ✓ Rich bass ✓ Clear treble. Now available!
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Has anybody attempted to replace the stock pads with aftermarket ones on these headphones?
I tried them with the HD 569 pads in an attempt to improve fit and comfort. It made the response more jagged and harder to EQ.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
bought a 3rd one (also 2nd hand) so data on 6 drivers that have quite a few hours on them:
There is some difference in the 4-6kHz range but might well be a coupling issue as moving the headphone slightly affects that region the most.
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Nice, very consistent up to 4kHz, with the tiniest of exception of that lower blue line in the bass. You've got 3 units, I've got 3 units, mine measure near identical and for some reason I'm getting more consistency above 4kHz than you are with using my miniDSP EARS.....although it might be methodology as I measured 10 times & averaged which cuts out some variation up there, I'll link my measurements again so they're joined up with this post of yours.
My measurements of my 3 units:
Sennheiser HD560S Review (Headphone)
Thanks for you feedback. I'm also considering the HE400se as they are the same price as the HD560s where i live but I'm enclining more to HD560s due to better quality and the fact that i wanna also add a cheap tube amp to the setup in the future. Good luck. You can't go wrong with either...
www.audiosciencereview.com
Do you have a favourite HD560s out of the 3 you have or pretty much all the same?
Did you reseat the headphones between measurements?
Yep, because otherwise it produces an identical measurement, in which case it wouldn't have mattered if you measured once or 100 times, but reseating the headphone between each measurement changes the measurement slightly, which is what I did. I removed it completely from the rig and then put it back on trying to get a roughly central positioning each time.
Yes I think it's proper way to do this and good way to calculate random error. Having a set of measurements, then calculating mean and 95% confidence limits and presenting those lines instead of many individual measurements is probably better way to present this information.
For sure keeping one, maybe the other too and offer it. They are really comfortable, breathable and no need to comment on the SQ. Using them daily for the past week. Persistence rewarded in the end
For people experiencing discomfort due to the clamping force, remove the earpads and set them for a day (or more) around a carton box roughly the size of your head. That will reduce the clamping.
Good, well enjoy!For sure keeping one, maybe the other too and offer it. They are really comfortable, breathable and no need to comment on the SQ. Using them daily for the past week. Persistence rewarded in the end
If Harman curve was the target, how would that look like on your rig ?bought a 3rd one (also 2nd hand) so data on 6 drivers that have quite a few hours on them:
There is some difference in the 4-6kHz range but might well be a coupling issue as moving the headphone slightly affects that region the most.
It would be a somewhat different curve for each different model of headphone. The only way solderdude would know what the curve would look like for each model would be to have a unit of that model measured on GRAS, and then he'd measure that same unit on his flat plate - which would enable him to extrapolate what the Harman Curve would like for that particular model of headphone. But the Harman Curve would look different for each model of headphone (I believe due to acoustic impedance differences between measurement rigs), so unfortunately it's not a particularly useful exercise - the same applies for any measurement rig that isn't a "GRAS". The Harman Headphone Curve is therefore really only relevant to the measurement rig that was used in the Harman Research - therefore the "GRAS rigs" of Amir / Oratory / Crinacle / Resolve are the ones that are relevant as they're pretty much the same as the one used in the Harman Research & "close enough" to be able to use the Harman Headphone Target Curve.
Noted.
Harman Curve headphones correlates with neutral sounding speakers in a room.
So I guess I should re-ask - what is neutral target (neutral speakers ) for his rig?
And same question with your miniDSP EARS?
Harman Headphone Curve is somewhat related to neutral sounding speakers in a room, probably the best generic one Target fits all people version (which is limited by that definition somewhat).
You'd have to ask solderdude what his neutral speaker target would be for his flat plate rig - but again it would vary a bit for each model of headphone in question (I think due to the acoustic impedance of his rig not matching that of a human ear accurately enough - same for all rigs, although less so for rigs that more accurately match the acoustic impedance of a real human ear.....so the GRAS rigs are more applicable for this kind of thing). For my miniDSP EARS rig I'm pretty much in the same boat as solderdude with his flat plate rig - any Harman Curve I was to create for my miniDSP EARS rig would be different for each headphone model & would require measuring the actual same unit of headphone on a GRAS rig and then measuring that same unit on the miniDSP EARS rig thereby allowing you to create a Harman Curve for the miniDSP EARS that is specific & relevant only to that model of headphone. I haven't ever created a Harman Curve for my miniDSP EARS rig, but I have had a couple of different headphones measured by Oratory on his GRAS rig that I've then measured on my miniDSP EARS rig, which has enabled me to convert a miniDSP EARS measurement for that headphone model to a GRAS style measurement which can then be EQ'd to the Harman Curve that we all are familiar with - so that was the approach I took rather than actually creating a Harman Curve for the miniDSP EARS but really that all has limited practical usage to the audiophile public and so is not really of much practical interest .
solderdude
Grand Contributor
There is no single 'curve' for my fixture so the answer is not a single trace because of the lack of a pinna/ear canal.
If there were such a thing as an ideal headphone following the Harman target it could fall into the 'range' shown below.
When drivers are not angled it will be closer to the upper side of the range and depending on factors like angle/driver-ear distance and diameter it could fall somewhere in the lighter red area.
I my target thus is a few dB less bassy and a bit clearer (think closer to nearfield monitors without a 'room curve' applied to them.
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Here is DCA Expanse (best Harman open back) on miniDSP EARS.
It's been smoothed but looks like flatter on EARs is more Harmany, till 4kHz anyway
Well, I imagine that's using one of the compensation calibration files that come with the miniDSP which is why there is not the massive peak around 4200Hz that is seen in the "RAW" frequency response of a miniDSP EARS measurement. I've never used anything other than the RAW calibration files, so that curve you're showing me doesn't mean that much to me......and to be honest, we said before that each headphone will have it's own "Harman Curve" on the miniDSP EARS, so there's not a universal "Harman Curve" that can be created for the miniDSP EARS. As to the before & after use curves that also doesn't mean much if we don't know how the person created the curves. In order for it to be relevant they would have had to have done a number of measurements whilst removing & replacing the headphone repeatedly on the miniDSP EARS which they'd then average - because if you don't do that what you're seeing in that graph could well be just the natural variation seen from measurement to measurement each time you remove & replace the headphone on the fixture. All in all, I don't think there's much to be gained from that graph, and it's not really related to this thread, although I appreciate we had some useful side discussions recently in this thread.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
So one of our members asked me if I would measure Poyatu pads as a replacement for the original pads.
Original pads are hard to source at the moment.
So below a comparison between original and Poyatu pads. The Poyatu pads ome from Ali-express and cost around $ 7.- for the pair (excl. shipping)
In total I paid € 11,32 for these pads included faster shipping (arrived in 2 weeks time)
These plots are made on a DIY pinna and earcanal less fixture not conforming to any standards.
As the pads look and feel the same (well.. the Poyatu are slightly softer) and this is the only difference in the setup, the usual suspects claiming how wrong these measurements are can rest assured the relative differences are valid.
Pad bounce being 14Hz lower is also indicative of softer pads.
It looks like people looking for a cheaper alternative pads can buy these Ali-express (Poyatu shop) HD560S pads.
Original pads are hard to source at the moment.
So below a comparison between original and Poyatu pads. The Poyatu pads ome from Ali-express and cost around $ 7.- for the pair (excl. shipping)
In total I paid € 11,32 for these pads included faster shipping (arrived in 2 weeks time)
These plots are made on a DIY pinna and earcanal less fixture not conforming to any standards.
As the pads look and feel the same (well.. the Poyatu are slightly softer) and this is the only difference in the setup, the usual suspects claiming how wrong these measurements are can rest assured the relative differences are valid.
Pad bounce being 14Hz lower is also indicative of softer pads.
It looks like people looking for a cheaper alternative pads can buy these Ali-express (Poyatu shop) HD560S pads.
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Yeah, they're alright re frequency response, and maybe a slight improvement given the HD560s has excess energy from 4-6kHz. My only concern with the softer pads is that they are likely gonna compress more, so for some people it might mean that their ear doesn't "float freely" in the earcup, ie. the ear might touch parts of the earcup. I know for instance my ears "float freely" in the earcup without touching, but I also know it's not far off touching, so perhaps with these softer aftermarket pads you show my ear could be touching some parts of the earcup. The problem with ears touching earcup is that it's one of the variables that some people think help soundstage - ie. if your ear floats freely in the earcup then you have better soundstage. There's also the comfort associated with your ears not touching any part of the earcup. That's a good frequency response though, I wouldn't be worried about using those aftermarket pads with the HD560s from that point of view.....but my first port of call would be to try to get the originals. Was definitely worth your while measuring those, a good result!
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