What is an equivalent product to HiFi snake oil?

[jsrtheta]

High end/designer clothing

Not snake oil. The product is right there when you buy it, you can try it on, you can determine the materials used. You are not being lied to.

 

[617]

Music is snake oil. People say that it moves them to have aesthetic and emotional experiences but they can't even describe them and there's no way they would hold up to double blind testing.

 

[jsrtheta]

There's quite a bit of research now indicating that anti depressant medication is no better than a placebo.

My nans anti aging cream doesn't seem to be working.

I am not aware of any such research. I was prescribed Zoloft years ago. It most definitely did something, namely repressing one's sex drive. Which is on the label, btw. But it is an antidepressant.

All antidepressants I have heard of have been extensively tested, with differing results for side effects as well as antidepressant action. As controlled substances, they must be before the FDA will sign off on them (unlike "natural" antidepressants - St. John's Wort is a "natural" antidepressant that has been found to be worthless after controlled, double-blind testing). It wasn't for me, but it is effective and beneficial for some.

 

[Chrispy]

Not snake oil. The product is right there when you buy it, you can try it on, you can determine the materials used. You are not being lied to.

The exclusivity of a particular piece/design is sometimes not true was one angle I was thinking of. Used to work with some folk who gleefully fleeced rich people in that industry....I guess mostly the buyers lie to themselves as to worth of such....

 

[pablolie]

"Snake oil" is simply something where the marketing lie greatly increases the "perceived value" for the buyer.

Four espresso shots can give me a good jolt for very few $. But if someone packs those espresso shots into a fancy little bottle, calls it MachoMax and claims it energizes you, boosts your sexual power and makes your _ grow... I think *both* selling and buying sides are responsible when scams work.

I always find it fascinating how often in the USA there is this "victim culture", when consumers feign total innocence and blame corporation marketers for making them drink or smoke or vape or whatever. As if they'd never ever heard before it may be an unhealthy buying decision likely to have negative mid term consequences. Luckily, in the case of audio, it only hurts your wallet, not your health...

 

[jsrtheta]

snake oil
/ˈsnāk ˌoil/

noun
INFORMAL•NORTH AMERICAN
noun: snake oil; noun: snakeoil

1. a substance with no real medicinal value sold as a remedy for all diseases.
   • a product, policy, etc. of little real worth or value that is promoted as the solution to a problem.
     "the new tax plan was denounced as snake oil"

No, I think I got it just right. But you are certainly welcome to your own opinion.

That definition doesn't help you.

 

[Gringoaudio1]

I am not aware of any such research. I was prescribed Zoloft years ago. It most definitely did something, namely repressing one's sex drive. Which is on the label, btw. But it is an antidepressant.

All antidepressants I have heard of have been extensively tested, with differing results for side effects as well as antidepressant action. As controlled substances, they must be before the FDA will sign off on them (unlike "natural" antidepressants - St. John's Wort is a "natural" antidepressant that has been found to be worthless after controlled, double-blind testing). It wasn't for me, but it is effective and beneficial for some.

Cold-FX which was sold as a ginseng based cold fighting potion. Shown to be BS.
Reminds me of the instructions in broken English in a package of ginseng my father received as a gift: will work in seven days or seven years.

Why Cold-FX is too good to be true

Studies offer no proof that the top-selling natural health product in Canada reduces cold and flu symptoms when paired with the flu shot

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[jsrtheta]

Yeah, it's going to end up like spirits. From where I sit, habitual marijuana can be pretty harmful to thriving, but nowhere near as bad as alcohol.

But, back on topic, the differences between fancy vodkas seem pretty evasive, although I certainly haven't bothered to try them side by side, or exhaustively. I'm more of a wine-with-food drinker - and I really enjoy finding relatively inexpensive but great wines. A $20 Rioja can be as joyful an experience as many more expensive wines.

I'm a fairly inexperienced and light pot user, but I've said elsewhere on this forum, if you are looking for a tweak that will give you one of those rapturous deep-in-the-music experiences with your current setup, a light dose of cannabinoids (of most any variety) will do the trick.

Unless it's flavored, vodka is vodka. Spending too much on Grey Goose will get you a bottle of vodka that is no different from a cheap bottle of Popov.

 

[pablolie]

Unless it's flavored, vodka is vodka. Spending too much on Grey Goose will get you a bottle of vodka that is no different from a cheap bottle of Popov.

I am a wine drinker myself. There *are* differences between a PC Bordeaux and Cali Cabs such as Colgin, Opus One and Sebastiani.The big question is whether it justifies the price differences, and clearly that's up to buyers' to decide by themselves. It's quite easy to embarrass wine snobs that claim outrageous bull like "oh the est wine HANDS DOWN is the 2007 Screaming Eagle Cab"... it's funny those wines never win a bling tasting when you invite a dozen friends over... :-D

I seldom drink vodka or tequila, but I think there are differences. Mostly a matter of personal preference rather than there being a more-expensive-means-better-tasting rule...

 

[2020]

Frozen pizza's... oh and everything on any home shopping tv network.


JSmith

bahahahahahahahaha. I'll stick with my frozen pizzas. I don't know what I'm missing and I'd like to keep it that way.

 

[jsrtheta]

I am a wine drinker myself. There *are* differences between a PC Bordeaux and Cali Cabs such as Colgin, Opus One and Sebastiani.The big question is whether it justifies the price differences, and clearly that's up to buyers' to decide by themselves. It's quite easy to embarrass wine snobs that claim outrageous bull like "oh the est wine HANDS DOWN is the 2007 Screaming Eagle Cab"... it's funny those wines never win a bling tasting when you invite a dozen friends over... :-D

I seldom drink vodka or tequila, but I think there are differences. Mostly a matter of personal preference rather than there being a more-expensive-means-better-tasting rule...

There was an online article about wines. I read it because it happened outside of Boston, where I grew up. The writer did a blind test of three wines with which he was familiar and which he liked. He thought the wines all had different qualities and would be easily distinguished from each other blindfolded. He couldn't. He didn't identify a single one correctly. I gave him props for not only doing the test, but then writing about it as well.

 

[pablolie]

There was an online article about wines. I read it because it happened outside of Boston, where I grew up. The writer did a blind test of three wines with which he was familiar and which he liked. He thought the wines all had different qualities and would be easily distinguished from each other blindfolded. He couldn't. He didn't identify a single one correctly. I gave him props for not only doing the test, but then writing about it as well.

I have a pretty high % when it comes to recognizing my reference wines.

Based on that, and if things are kept fair, I can as a rule very reliably tell whether a Sauvignon Blanc is from the Old World or New World (and tend to recognize New Zealand). Also with Pinot Noirs I can tell Sooma from Santa Lucia from Arroyo Grande etc in CA (especially if you keep it to my fav label :-D).

Despite the fact I am proud of my ability to make such distinctions, I never ever try to make that a standard for quality and which is better than what and why. I can only establish my preferences. And it's in some way not different to audio: in both wines and audio, I have been fortunate to be able to try a lot of stuff, spend a lot of money, and in the end the only thing that matters is what I have learned to prefer for my very own likes. And establish how much I trust "experts"...

 

[Newman]

the only thing that matters is what I have learned to prefer for my very own likes.

Isn't that the motto of the raging hedonist?

I admit, it's a very common motive for being in this hobby. I accept that, and I accept the people who have that motive. But I don't accept that is it is "the only thing that matters".

Because there are those of us who picked this hobby up out of our love of music as art, and our desire to appreciate that art. That means we want "the experience that they made for us". There are two intertwined arts in recorded music playback: what the musicians did in terms of music, and what a recording production team did in terms of sonic mix, balance and presentation. We want what they created with skill, sensitivity and care.

For much of popular music this approach is fraught, because the production is too often insensitive and commercial. For that music one could say all is lost, but for the other stuff...

Yes, for the other stuff, the music itself is not focused on "our very own likes": it can be deliberately challenging, it can be unhappy, difficult, sharp, cutting, excessive, confusing, and all quite deliberately so, not about pleasure at all. The recorded musical art appreciator wants to have learning experiences, not always pleasant, anticipates the challenge, and doesn't want his hifi to wallpaper it over with likeability. We want to experience the art they made for us, unmodified. The Circle of Confusion is a genuine threat to that goal, and something we try to deal with.

So there's that.

cheers

 

[Galliardist]

Isn't that the motto of the raging hedonist?

I admit, it's a very common motive for being in this hobby. I accept that, and I accept the people who have that motive. But I don't accept that is it is "the only thing that matters".

Because there are those of us who picked this hobby up out of our love of music as art, and our desire to appreciate that art. That means we want "the experience that they made for us". There are two intertwined arts in recorded music playback: what the musicians did in terms of music, and what a recording production team did in terms of sonic mix, balance and presentation. We want what they created with skill, sensitivity and care.

For much of popular music this approach is fraught, because the production is too often insensitive and commercial. For that music one could say all is lost, but for the other stuff...

Yes, for the other stuff, the music itself is not focused on "our very own likes": it can be deliberately challenging, it can be unhappy, difficult, sharp, cutting, excessive, confusing, and all quite deliberately so, not about pleasure at all. The recorded musical art appreciator wants to have learning experiences, not always pleasant, anticipates the challenge, and doesn't want his hifi to wallpaper it over with likeability. We want to experience the art they made for us, unmodified. The Circle of Confusion is a genuine threat to that goal, and something we try to deal with.

So there's that.

cheers

That's something of a manifesto. There's a lot of "how" in this forum, but we need reminding of the "why" more often. Thanks.

 

[Galliardist]

I have a pretty high % when it comes to recognizing my reference wines.

Based on that, and if things are kept fair, I can as a rule very reliably tell whether a Sauvignon Blanc is from the Old World or New World (and tend to recognize New Zealand). Also with Pinot Noirs I can tell Sooma from Santa Lucia from Arroyo Grande etc in CA (especially if you keep it to my fav label :-D).

Despite the fact I am proud of my ability to make such distinctions, I never ever try to make that a standard for quality and which is better than what and why. I can only establish my preferences. And it's in some way not different to audio: in both wines and audio, I have been fortunate to be able to try a lot of stuff, spend a lot of money, and in the end the only thing that matters is what I have learned to prefer for my very own likes. And establish how much I trust "experts"...

But.
The wine example is moot, isn't it? I can tell the difference between recordings of, say, ABBA and the Les Humphries Singers (look them up if you haven't heard of them). I can probably, with that pairing, make an easy statement about quality as well - but no matter.
On a half decent system, I can tell the difference between recoridings made by a fair number of different classical guitarists, and sometimes (players can often dominate the instrument) the way the guitar has been built, if not the luthier/workshop who built it. And among those guitarists, I have my preferences. The wine comparison works OK with music, I guess.

But that has, or should have, nothing to do with the hifi itself.

The wine and the music are subjective tastes: but you don't need to be able to taste what make of truck delivered the wine to your local shop, or where the bottles were made: and you certainly are not adding a desert spoonful of sugar to every bottle to make it to your "very own likes". You probably aren't even adding any expensive snake oil, either.

And I guess you'd probably think anyone who demands that their wines are only delivered by a 2013 Ford Transit with a modified engine and silver hubcaps to be an idiot. The same, maybe for someone who swears that only a gold plated rhodium corkscrew allows you to get the full wine experience.

So, does the wine comparison work with, say, interconnect cables? Not so well.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

For me pure music is enough, especially krautrock

THC and mushrooms heightens at least some of your senses. All probably know about the munchies and food tastes better part, but it also affects for example hearing by making you hear better.
I'm no scientist, but here's my two cents. Firstly THC slows down "time". For example if you play a first person shooter game you would react faster as the game seems slower and you can hear more details in music because it's slower. If you take a small enough dose you wouldn't necessarily hear music as slower, but only as sounding better and more holographic.
Of course just like normally you listen to music not every time would yield as positives vibes. Pardon the pun.

 

[Chrispy]

THC and mushrooms heightens at least some of your senses. All probably know about the munchies and food tastes better part, but it also affects for example hearing by making you hear better.
I'm no scientist, but here's my two cents. Firstly THC slows down "time". For example if you play a first person shooter game you would react faster as the game seems slower and you can hear more details in music because it's slower. If you take a small enough dose you wouldn't necessarily hear music as slower, but only as sounding better and more holographic.
Of course just like normally you listen to music not every time would yield as positives vibes. Pardon the pun.

Does anything help krautrock, tho?

 

[Recluse-Animator]

If they use their product, they soon will be.

This is an exaggerated stereotype.

 

[Recluse-Animator]

Does anything help krautrock, tho?

It's not uncommon for people who's been intoxicated enough by alcohol or other substances to go beyond their comfort zones.

 

[oleg87]

Some electric guitarists can get a bit overly mystical about their amps and effects pedals and all the minutia of the tubes/opamps/capacitors/etc within, but I suppose that's in the same realm as audiophilia. Of course, all that gear is usually intended to operate very far from anything approaching linearity and fidelity or anything objectively measurable, so maybe all that stuff matters more, but without seeing someone distinguish them in a double-blind test I'm very skeptical that you could tell the difference between two brands of film caps.