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8361A’s - First Impressions

RobL

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Well they showed up a day early and it’s raining here so I’ve had some time to set them up. Out of the box I set them on the stands my 1032A’s were on in the same location. Connected to my Rme Adi2 fed digital from an Airport Express streaming Apple music high res over airplay.
First listen - they have astonishing clarity and detail. Bass is a little over-the-top, but they are placed very close to the front wall. I turn up Dua Lipa and I can shake my wife’s baubles right off the fireplace mantle. The power these are capable of is very impressive.
I ordered a GLM kit with them so I connected everything up to my laptop and ran the calibration. One sweep each side and…that’s it! Done. GLM reduced several modes below 180 hz. Now things sound a little lean to me, I like a little bit of bass boost. Sound Profiler allows you to shelve it, but only 3dB. I’ll listen like that for now, I guess I can give it a bit more through the RME if I want to?
Comparing them to my 1032’s gives me a new appreciation of how good the 1032’s were. They’re not on the level of these but these 61’s don’t embarrass them either. The 61’s sound more “refined” (?) maybe? The biggest difference I notice is the soundstage. The 1032’s had no trouble producing soundstage outside the speaker’s spread, the 8361’s seem to contain the soundstage to between the speakers. Imaging is very precise though, definitely more pin point than the 1032’s were capable of.
I need to play with glm and learn more about it. I’m going to fire up REW and get my Umik 1 out and take some measurements with it as well. As it stands I’m pretty impressed with these, probably will be my last purchase for a while. I took a pic beside a 705p to give some scale to them.
image.jpg
 

Sancus

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Profiler allows you to shelve it, but only 3dB. I’ll listen like that for now, I guess I can give it a bit more through the RME if I want to?
You should be able to manually adjust the shelf filters to whatever you want more or less. Don't be afraid of doing that, GLM is designed for you to clearly see and modify the filters it applies if you like.
 
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RobL

RobL

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You should be able to manually adjust the shelf filters to whatever you want more or less. Don't be afraid of doing that, GLM is designed for you to clearly see and modify the filters it applies if you like.
I did try to manually adjust them but still am only allowed up to +3dB on the low shelf + filter. The low shelf - filter seems to have no limit on it. The high shelf + filter isn’t even available to adjust so maybe I just need to learn more about GLM :)
 

YSC

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I did try to manually adjust them but still am only allowed up to +3dB on the low shelf + filter. The low shelf - filter seems to have no limit on it. The high shelf + filter isn’t even available to adjust so maybe I just need to learn more about GLM :)
Didn’t have any GLM experience but I would think that it’s easier for you to do the shelving filters on the rme, let the 8361 do the flattening filters but then do the room curve with rme
 

hege

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I did try to manually adjust them but still am only allowed up to +3dB on the low shelf + filter. The low shelf - filter seems to have no limit on it. The high shelf + filter isn’t even available to adjust so maybe I just need to learn more about GLM :)

Just try to tweak the high shelf down, less highs = more bass, some examples:


 
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RobL

RobL

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Just try to tweak the high shelf down, less highs = more bass, some examples:


Very helpful, thanks!
 

Pearljam5000

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Well they showed up a day early and it’s raining here so I’ve had some time to set them up. Out of the box I set them on the stands my 1032A’s were on in the same location. Connected to my Rme Adi2 fed digital from an Airport Express streaming Apple music high res over airplay.
First listen - they have astonishing clarity and detail. Bass is a little over-the-top, but they are placed very close to the front wall. I turn up Dua Lipa and I can shake my wife’s baubles right off the fireplace mantle. The power these are capable of is very impressive.
I ordered a GLM kit with them so I connected everything up to my laptop and ran the calibration. One sweep each side and…that’s it! Done. GLM reduced several modes below 180 hz. Now things sound a little lean to me, I like a little bit of bass boost. Sound Profiler allows you to shelve it, but only 3dB. I’ll listen like that for now, I guess I can give it a bit more through the RME if I want to?
Comparing them to my 1032’s gives me a new appreciation of how good the 1032’s were. They’re not on the level of these but these 61’s don’t embarrass them either. The 61’s sound more “refined” (?) maybe? The biggest difference I notice is the soundstage. The 1032’s had no trouble producing soundstage outside the speaker’s spread, the 8361’s seem to contain the soundstage to between the speakers. Imaging is very precise though, definitely more pin point than the 1032’s were capable of.
I need to play with glm and learn more about it. I’m going to fire up REW and get my Umik 1 out and take some measurements with it as well. As it stands I’m pretty impressed with these, probably will be my last purchase for a while. I took a pic beside a 705p to give some scale to them.
View attachment 238512
Congrats
Do you mean the 8361 has a smaller soundstage than 1032?
Also do you feel the 8361 is more detailed than 1032 that you can hear stuff on the 8361 that you can't on the 1032?
And also how much more bass the 8361 has(if any?)
Sorry for the many questions
 
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RobL

RobL

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Congrats
Do you mean the 8361 has a smaller soundstage than 1032?
Also do you feel the 8361 is more detailed than 1032 that you can hear stuff on the 8361 that you can't on the 1032?
And also how much more bass the 8361 has(if any?)
Sorry for the many questions

It seems to me the 8361 is a less “spacious” sounding speaker than the 1032. Yes, I think the soundstage is narrower, I’m guessing due to less interaction with the side walls? As a qualifier I should add “in it’s current location and configuration”. I plan to experiment a bit with location.
The 61’s are shockingly detailed, at least to me. It a very different presentation that I’ve heard before, not that I’m hugely experienced with high end monitors :). It’s hard to describe …they don’t thrust detail into your face but for whatever reason you just realize it’s there now. I’m sure that the same detail was there on the 1032’s if listened to carefully but I just didn’t notice it. Maybe that’s due to their extreme clarity…I could trot out that old trope about the wife in the kitchen but my wife actually did mention how clear the 61’s are, :)
Bass-wise, out of the box the bass was overwhelming when I first played them without glm. For fun I cranked them up and the bass actually got scary powerful lol. The 1032’s could pound, but not like these. :)
After glm, the bass was much more subdued, probably “correct” actually. No hint of woolliness, just super tight and clean. I’ll trade a tiny bit of wool for a little bass boost though, lol. So I’m going for more of a Harmon curve at the LP than flat below 1000 like glm wants.
No worries about the questions, I think you’d really enjoy a set of 61’s.
 

zhy3213

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The 1032’s had no trouble producing soundstage outside the speaker’s spread, the 8361’s seem to contain the soundstage to between the speakers.
To my knowledge, speakers shouldn’t be producing sound images out side the stage between them.
 

srrxr71

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You should be able to manually adjust the shelf filters to whatever you want more or less. Don't be afraid of doing that, GLM is designed for you to clearly see and modify the filters it applies if you like.
The 2 filters are “controlled by SCP”. Yes that 3dB limit sucks. But you are right that you can use the other 2 shelving filters to add more.

The real solution is: 7380. That will fix it.
 
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RobL

RobL

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To my knowledge, speakers shouldn’t be producing sound images out side the stage between them.
Yes not imaging, but I’ve had many speakers which gave the illusion of sound outside their boundaries…I assume from reflections off the side walls due to wide dispersion.
 

srrxr71

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It seems to me the 8361 is a less “spacious” sounding speaker than the 1032. Yes, I think the soundstage is narrower, I’m guessing due to less interaction with the side walls? As a qualifier I should add “in it’s current location and configuration”. I plan to experiment a bit with location.
The 61’s are shockingly detailed, at least to me. It a very different presentation that I’ve heard before, not that I’m hugely experienced with high end monitors :). It’s hard to describe …they don’t thrust detail into your face but for whatever reason you just realize it’s there now. I’m sure that the same detail was there on the 1032’s if listened to carefully but I just didn’t notice it. Maybe that’s due to their extreme clarity…I could trot out that old trope about the wife in the kitchen but my wife actually did mention how clear the 61’s are, :)
Bass-wise, out of the box the bass was overwhelming when I first played them without glm. For fun I cranked them up and the bass actually got scary powerful lol. The 1032’s could pound, but not like these. :)
After glm, the bass was much more subdued, probably “correct” actually. No hint of woolliness, just super tight and clean. I’ll trade a tiny bit of wool for a little bass boost though, lol. So I’m going for more of a Harmon curve at the LP than flat below 1000 like glm wants.
No worries about the questions, I think you’d really enjoy a set of 61’s.
I believe you can adjust soundstage with playing with toe in. But probably there are limits.

Yes detail is not thrust at you. Neither must you “listen hard”. It’s just served up on silver platter for you to gorge upon as you please. Everything in its place and in its space at its relative level. It’s mind blowing seriously.

I’m talking about 8341. But 8361 is the same just amped up.
 

srrxr71

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Yes not imaging, but I’ve had many speakers which gave the illusion of sound outside their boundaries…I assume from reflections off the side walls due to wide dispersion.
In fact not. I have my side walls fully treated and sounds come from outside. Must be some phase trickery. We can hear sounds from all over using just 2 ears so i’m not surprised.

In another thread someone mentioned Haas effect but after reading about that I think that is about something else. Perhaps i’m wrong.


I suppose i’m in the minority when I believe in “anechoic path”. That term coming from the gentleman at GIK who helped me treat my room. In fact I think it’s in their education materials.

So my belief is that all the space of the recording is already in the recording. Even studio albums have engineers applying echo and other techniques.

So for me in my room - each song brings its own acoustic space to me. Each singer sings in my room - thanks to usually great vocal miking on most songs.

For me my goal is to hear what the mixing engineer heard as a baseline. Then I add +3dB from 0-200Hz to sweeten up the bass. I shelve down at 1500Hz about -2dB. Now this can change based on your toe in.

You will really enjoy playing with these factors so much to learn and you will learn from technically proven monitors - so you will not need to second guess your results as coming from a flaw in the monitors as you might with lesser monitors. You’ve seen the graph and you can associate audible changes with graphs and numbers.

This stuff is truly end game. A lifetime of searching over.
 
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bricksie

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In fact not. I have my side walls fully treated and sounds come from outside. Must be some phase trickery. We can hear sounds from all over using just 2 ears so i’m not surprised.

In another thread someone mentioned Haas effect but after reading about that I think that is about something else. Perhaps i’m wrong.


I suppose i’m in the minority when I believe in “anechoic path”. That term coming from the gentleman at GIK who helped me treat my room. In fact I think it’s in their education materials.

So my belief is that all the space of the recording is already in the recording. Even studio albums have engineers applying echo and other techniques.

So for me in my room - each song brings its own acoustic space to me. Each singer sings in my room - thanks to usually great vocal miking on most songs.

For me my goal is to hear what the mixing engineer heard as a baseline. Then I add +3dB from 0-200Hz to sweeten up the bass. I shelve down at 1500Hz about -2dB. Now this can change based on your toe in.

You will really enjoy playing with these factors so much to learn and you will learn from technically proven monitors - so you will not need to second guess your results as coming from a flaw in the monitors as you might with lesser monitors. You’ve seen the graph and you can associate audible changes with graphs and numbers.

This stuff is truly end game. A lifetime of searching over.
When I get any new equipment I listen to Amused to Death to see what the imaging is like - this is all phase trickery, but sounds amazing through my 8351Bs.
 

srrxr71

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When I get any new equipment I listen to Amused to Death to see what the imaging is like - this is all phase trickery, but sounds amazing through my 8351Bs.
So that is the exact track some dealer used on me 20 years ago to make me go gaga over some speakers he was selling.

I took out a personal loan to afford them.

I won’t say they are junk but compared to this they are haha.

Oddly enough they don’t do that lightning coming from all the way on the left truck with these. I’ll have to check again.

I must say those particular speakers had a driver in the back to “create ambiance” or something. It did blow my mind.

He played “perfect sense part 1”

One other thing for those who don’t know. This album was recorded in Q sound. As was Madonna “immaculate collection”.

Something to research if interested.
 
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Pearljam5000

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So that is the exact track some dealer used in me 20 years ago to make me go gaga over some speakers he was selling.

I took out a personal loan to afford them.

I won’t say they are junk but compared to this they are haha.

Oddly enough they don’t do that lightning coming from all the way on the left truck with these. I’ll have to check again.

I must say those particular speakers had a driver in the back to “create ambiance” or something. It did blow my mind.

He played “perfect sense part 1”

One other thing for those who don’t know. This album was recorded in Q sound. As was Madonna “immaculate collection”.

Something to research if interested.
Would you say the price difference between 1032 and 8361 is worth it?
 

srrxr71

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Would you say the price difference between 1032 and 8361 is worth it?
I don’t know. I never heard the 1032 nor have I ever considered it.

If i’m not mistaken an engineer friend of mine used the science to buy 1032 or possibly 1031. Not sure. I heard them but was not impressed. He did not set them up properly.

I wasn’t a Genelec buyer back them and bought Focal Solo 6be instead.

It’s just when I found ASR and considered the point source nature of them and saw the measurements that I had the Ones on my radar. I finally ordered them late last year.

I haven’t looked back. I had the pleasure of finding a demo of them after I ordered and before they showed up. So what was a sight unseen - by the numbers purchase became validated when I had the audition.

So the numbers, graphs and auditions correlated.

Personally I would not stray from point source. Whether the signals sum or whatever I suffered while listening to the Solo 6be up close. Maybe if I sat far enough it wouldn’t have mattered.

Maybe it’s irrational but i’m a point source fanboy more than a Genelec fanboy. That’s why I have KEF LS50w2 and had LS50 w before the 8341 also. But the IMD issue bothered me and I went with 8341.

Btw my 8361 has not arrived yet.

I would also try LS60w. However GLM is the game changer for me and that’s why I don’t bat an eyelid on the cost of those damn subs. If I had the wherewithal to play with accourate or miniDSP etc I would consider KEF LS60 more seriously.

If KEF could compete with GLM I might even switch for cost reason. Like if it could DSP rhythmik subs for me.

So many ways to skin the cat. It’s just GLM is worry free and easy. I got lured in by the $6k cost of the 8341 and got addicted to GLM.

So now i’m kind of stuck specifying my system upwards for the SPL I want. If I had know that in the beginning I might have gone another way. Because now the subs cost is going to be about $11k. I did not know. If I did i might have been more inclined to figure out accourate and/miniDSP and go with KEF. Maybe even R3 and open it up and biamp it with a digital crossover.

I’m not unhappy about the path i’m on. Because at the end of the day external validation matters. I hate to say it.

I would never know if I got my crossover programming right. I could test with REW and look at the numbers but not know how to interpret them.

Also as I get older my love to DIY is gone. I loved building computers. Loved it. Now I buy parts and they sit tor months. I used to buy them and nearly wreck on the way home to build them. So excited. Not anymore.

I could do that work myself but being on this path is easier and the GRADE report changed the game now.
 
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ferrellms

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Yes not imaging, but I’ve had many speakers which gave the illusion of sound outside their boundaries…I assume from reflections off the side walls due to wide dispersion

High quality speakers in good rooms reproduce accurately the recording which can include all kinds of spatial cues including sounds from outside the speakers.
 
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