• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Which speakers are the Classical Music Pros using?

Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
50
Likes
98
What is happening ?

your name is quoted on cd , on pdf available on the net, gearslutz and review as diapason.

i listened again to the xenakis at Aeon. I must have bad ears
I still do not understand what you actually mean with your last posts.
Got to ask although I can guess a little...

There were some lovely orchestral performances recorded by Decca and EMI in the 60's and 60's and I almost cringe (unfairly?) when I was told some of the monitors then used. Tannoys in Lockwood (Major?) cabinets, Altecs at Abbey Road but not sure about earlier...

I have heard Altec theatre speakers, I think the A7 series, with modified crossovers years ago, making a very convincing rendition of contemporary classical recordings. Some qualities remain unsurpassed, if I remember correctly. They were also tonally quite correct.

Indeed it is interesting to note some 50-60 era recordings still sound amazing today, while we suppose the monitoring was awful at that time. Maybe not all evolution has been good. It was an era of much experimentation and seeking ways to get that final bit of quality. They must have been able to hear what they were doing …

edit: the quote

They were awful. I think that’s why the Beatles stuff works – because you had to work so hard to make it sound good on those speakers. If it sounded good on there, it would sound great anywhere.”


is interesting. Were they so awful ? Or were they also exposing the awfulness that went in ? The Altec I heard would probably be very revealing of certain problems (like too much compression). They would sound harsh easily. Now compare that to what happens when a recording is monitored on B&W800 speakers. Suddenly you can hang bright mics above string sections.
 
Last edited:

Duke

Major Contributor
Audio Company
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 22, 2016
Messages
1,550
Likes
3,844
Location
Princeton, Texas
Ah, I thought it was mainly a "audiophile" thing, but you are right, it is the main divider in the 2 big recording ethos.

You are there infers recording the performance in the hall/church/whatever, and playing that back in the listening room to give the listener a sense of leaving his room, and being transported to the recording venue. This does not need to be a distant (minimalist as it seems to be called wrongly and negatively here ?) rendering, it can be quite close as well. One mic. 27 mics. A constant will be the main mic array will do the heavy lifting in the final mix.

They are here is quite the opposite. The recording is close & intimate and does not have much information about the venue, or the venue was dry (and big) to begin with. You can play this back in your listening room, and on a good system it will sound as if they are playing in your room.

Thank you, that makes sense.

Over on the playback side of the chain I try to enable "you are there", to the extent that it's on the recording anyway. Seems to me that recordings generally do have a "there", some moreso than others obviously, but even when the "there" is fairly intimate and/or subtle, it's still imo likely to be more interesting than the playback room's "here".
 

ahofer

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
5,021
Likes
9,051
Location
New York City
Thank you, that makes sense.

Over on the playback side of the chain I try to enable "you are there", to the extent that it's on the recording anyway. Seems to me that recordings generally do have a "there", some moreso than others obviously, but even when the "there" is fairly intimate and/or subtle, it's still imo likely to be more interesting than the playback room's "here".
”They are here” with orchestral music seems impossible to pull off in a normal residence.
 
OP
tuga

tuga

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
3,984
Likes
4,285
Location
Oxford, England
”They are here” with orchestral music seems impossible to pull off in a normal residence.

Stereo is not able to recreate the original sound field but a representation of a soundstage of sorts,. It can potentially create an illusion of real musicans playing in one's room or of transporting us to a different acoustic space/environment but the outcome ultimately depends on the listener's ability to "interpret" this sonic "second nature" of sorts.
 

Dialectic

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
1,755
Likes
3,165
Location
a fortified compound

bkdc

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 28, 2022
Messages
274
Likes
269
Extreme variation will still exist even if everyone is using B&W. Even with extensive sound treatment, the difference of each room is probably providing more variation than the speakers themselves. Consistency is great but they should post the measured hearing test of all of these recording engineers….. who after age 50 likely have measurable hearing loss. ;)
 

ahofer

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 3, 2019
Messages
5,021
Likes
9,051
Location
New York City
Stereo is not able to recreate the original sound field but a representation of a soundstage of sorts,. It can potentially create an illusion of real musicans playing in one's room or of transporting us to a different acoustic space/environment but the outcome ultimately depends on the listener's ability to "interpret" this sonic "second nature" of sorts.
I made the same observation further up. In this case I was responding to the discussion about different mic/hall recording techniques.
 

amadeuswus

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
279
Likes
266
Location
Massachusetts
As a note of interest, I just recently heard back this later version on a Mola Mola Makua with the dac option, into a Bruno Putzeys Purifi amp (by Bruno himself), into Link audio B800 speakers. It is just gobsmacking how a state of the art (digital) replay chain makes this "problematic" go away.
It took some searching, but this seems to be the speaker that you mentioned above. Are these your regular monitoring or mastering speakers? (Trying to nudge back to the original thread topic ....)


(Frekwentie/amplitude curve : 18 -22000 hz +/-1.5 db)
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
50
Likes
98
It took some searching, but this seems to be the speaker that you mentioned above. Are these your regular monitoring or mastering speakers? (Trying to nudge back to the original thread topic ....)


(Frekwentie/amplitude curve : 18 -22000 hz +/-1.5 db)
I use the latest version of the K100. These are the B800 minus the sub. In my mastering studio the setup works better with stereo subs in a different location than the main speakers.
 

Newman

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
3,500
Likes
4,320
At least I do not use a stupid alias online, in any forum.
A dozen posts and you have already descended to this level.

If you are not ready for robust discussion of your biases and mistakes as an audio professional, then this is not the place for you, because it will happen from time to time. Egos need to be put aside.

I mean, congratulations on your achievements, and to repeat what I said earlier in response to your fourth post since joining, welcome to ASR; but this forum is in general dedicated to progress in audio, both in technical excellence and in perceptually-preferred techniques and approaches. It’s not about appealing to one’s own authority, or looking for things to call stupid as you did in the above personal attack, but instead, asking how the latest in audio research can be used to make one’s next audio project, be it production or reproduction, an improvement on one’s past projects.

And on that note, what opportunities do you see, based on audio science, to make your next project a step up from anything you have done in the past? Maybe start a thread on that.

cheers
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
50
Likes
98
A dozen posts and you have already descended to this level.

If you are not ready for robust discussion of your biases and mistakes as an audio professional, then this is not the place for you, because it will happen from time to time. Egos need to be put aside.

I mean, congratulations on your achievements, and to repeat what I said earlier in response to your fourth post since joining, welcome to ASR; but this forum is in general dedicated to progress in audio, both in technical excellence and in perceptually-preferred techniques and approaches. It’s not about appealing to one’s own authority, or looking for things to call stupid as you did in the above personal attack, but instead, asking how the latest in audio research can be used to make one’s next audio project, be it production or reproduction, an improvement on one’s past projects.

And on that note, what opportunities do you see, based on audio science, to make your next project a step up from anything you have done in the past? Maybe start a thread on that.

cheers
To be clear: when I wrote "stupid aliases" that was not a direct insult.
It was a response to the clear implication that I am a liar, by someone who is hiding behind an alias, who himself has just misused my use of my real name to quickly google incomplete and inconclusive info about me. The "insult" was not named directly at that alias, nor at that person. It was aimed at the situation. If you did not see the distinction, so be it.

To be very clear to this community : if you feel insulted, by all means I sincerely apologize. I do understand why you want or need to use an alias.

Now, if someone can explain me why I get a big slap on the fingers, but the person who triggered it not I would be very obliged. Maybe I should just have reported the post straight away, but on some forums that is a much bigger perpetration.

Could we agree that if you use an alias, and want to do a personal attack, you can do it through a personal conversation. Not in an open forum, because that will very likely trigger a "stupid" response. As an andecdote, last time that happened to me was on Gearspace, and the person that did the personal mail was banned for life instantly. I will not repeat here what was written, it was about something else than - dare I say it ? - "stupid" numbers...

Now onto the second paragraph : I am ready ! But you are forgetting there was a direct attack to undermine what I wrote. Is that a robust discussion ? Where is your post to defend me in that regard ? Do I need 1000+ posts to be eligible ?

Third paragraph : that is what is of interest to me as well. But it is very complex. Nobody listens the same way, even when in the same room with the same playback system. I have personal experience that indicates even I (myself) listen differently when a client comes in to listen back to edit nr2. The presence of the other changes my perception ! You can understand that makes me question some research with test subjects... in groups especially. I need to progress in the direction I took, I need to go out every time for a recording in the belief this is the right approach. The moment I start thinking about what is generally preferred I need to stay home ! I do not like what is generally preferred. Most major label's chamber music recordings is what got me into this business for a start (they were generally appalling). Is this appealing to one's authority ? It could seem that way on a forum talking about basic things, but believe me, I am not the type of person who never questions what he is doing. I started out during purist recordings - only one stereo mic, no postproduction (except for editing). Now I am at a point where I could completely fake it ... There are several paths to improve, but then the industry needs to get back on track. As a stupid example, microphone development at Sennheiser is laughable the last decade. They are my preferred mics, but the good ones are getting out of production, and no replacements in sight. Sigh ... Sennheiser was a company that was based around the ultimate recording mic. Now it is not.

Fourth : cable microphonics. I do not have a budget to put 30K of cable on stage, but I found some mic cable that is really a lot less microphonic. If you consider the lengths of cable on stage (in an orchestra playing loud !), this could/should have a serious impact, especially with ribbon mics which need high gain. I just need to find time to do some soldering, then we can see.

To conclude : next time I will not respond to direct attacks. I will just use the ignore button.
 
OP
tuga

tuga

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2020
Messages
3,984
Likes
4,285
Location
Oxford, England
welcome to ASR; but this forum is in general dedicated to progress in audio, both in technical excellence and in perceptually-preferred techniques and approaches.

Amen! Long live the wise, the righteous, the pious defenders of the Faith. Blessed be the fruit of our Lord Toole.
 

Purité Audio

Master Contributor
Industry Insider
Barrowmaster
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 29, 2016
Messages
9,110
Likes
12,299
Location
London
You disparage Toole yet believe that your ‘Uptone’ regen and HQ player bring audible benefits you just sound silly.
Keith
 
Last edited:

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,680
Likes
37,390
snippage......
Third paragraph : that is what is of interest to me as well. But it is very complex. Nobody listens the same way, even when in the same room with the same playback system. I have personal experience that indicates even I (myself) listen differently when a client comes in to listen back to edit nr2. The presence of the other changes my perception ! You can understand that makes me question some research with test subjects... in groups especially. I need to progress in the direction I took, I need to go out every time for a recording in the belief this is the right approach. The moment I start thinking about what is generally preferred I need to stay home ! I do not like what is generally preferred. Most major label's chamber music recordings is what got me into this business for a start (they were generally appalling). Is this appealing to one's authority ? It could seem that way on a forum talking about basic things, but believe me, I am not the type of person who never questions what he is doing. I started out during purist recordings - only one stereo mic, no postproduction (except for editing). Now I am at a point where I could completely fake it ... There are several paths to improve, but then the industry needs to get back on track. As a stupid example, microphone development at Sennheiser is laughable the last decade. They are my preferred mics, but the good ones are getting out of production, and no replacements in sight. Sigh ... Sennheiser was a company that was based around the ultimate recording mic. Now it is not.
Have you used some microphones that you do find to be better than Sennheiser's recent offerings? What characteristics would like to see improved or made different?
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
50
Likes
98
Have you used some microphones that you do find to be better than Sennheiser's recent offerings? What characteristics would like to see improved or made different?
The polar responses of the Senns are very good. This is the main quality that attracks me. That is because I misuse microphones, and I do not use omnis in general. Combined with the very low noise floor and THD. II just wonder what happens if you modernise the electronics. On the other hand I am constantly amazed listening back to old recordings (using the same mics, although lesser mic preamps and certainly AD conversion) how much quality can be extracted by more modern speakers/amps/DAC...

To give a bit more context, beginning of '2000 I was getting frustrated by the Senns, tried several other routes, but by upgrading front end, and playback end, it became clear over more than a decade nothing is wrong with the mics. Upgrading our main DAC would suddenly make the mics sound more natural.

It is in this context that this thread is very relevant. IMO the biggest improvement over the last decades (in audio recording) is in the playback chain. Except maybe for the AD converters, which are freed of "digital" sound in the latest generations. But everything is intrinsically linked. A good loudspeaker gets even better using a new amp (Purifi anyone ?). So it is very interesting to ask which monitors are being used by the studios.

And then you do location recording and have to sit in the basement of a 15th century church, next to the toilets, with your 10K monitoring...
So, I need good headphones, which is how I came to this site. I need good headphones with no EQ necessary !

On a personal note : I seem to understand you are not a big fan of purist recordings. Why Blumlein 88 then ? It is a great technique, which unfortunately I do not use often. I do use MS stereo (a Blumlein invention) all the time, with a variable mid mic pattern.
 

AdamG

Debunking the “Infomercial” hawkers & fabricators
Moderator
Forum Donor
Joined
Jan 3, 2021
Messages
4,709
Likes
15,504
Location
Reality
Wtf ?

if this is the level of this forum, my account will be shortlived.
Our apologies Sir. We do not condone Doxxing on any level period. The offending member has been warned and sanctioned for this behavior. We treat this seriously and it should not happen here, ever. Please don’t let the actions of one member unduly influence your opinion about our forum and members. We are proud to be the Host for many Professionals in the Audio Industry from all aspects. If you wish more posts removed that contains information about you that you do not want published here please send me a PM with the post number and we will clean out any personal information contained in that post.

Again you have our Sincere Apologies for this transgression. Welcome Aboard @Yannick Willox !
 
Joined
Oct 13, 2022
Messages
50
Likes
98
Our apologies Sir. We do not condone Doxxing on any level period. The offending member has been warned and sanctioned for this behavior. We treat this seriously and it should not happen here, ever. Please don’t let the actions of one member unduly influence your opinion about our forum and members. We are proud to be the Host for many Professionals in the Audio Industry from all aspects. If you wish more posts removed that contains information about you that you do not want published here please send me a PM with the post number and we will clean out any personal information contained in that post.

Again you have our Sincere Apologies for this transgression. Welcome Aboard @Yannick Willox !
Thank you. As I am using my name, you can (should) of course just call me Yannick.
Also, you can find (parts of) me on the internet, so I do not strongly object to someone posting info that is readily available.

The context got me a bit vexed...
 

sergeauckland

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 16, 2016
Messages
3,456
Likes
9,145
Location
Suffolk UK
This community is dominated by closed minded armchair experts who are like rabid attack dogs. Ad hominem attacks are the norm here. Attacking industry experts and those with actual experience is normal. Knowledge here is not from experience but from reading magazines, brochures and test measurements (often faulty) which are all held up as totally trouncing all industry evidence to the contrary. I think many people here aren’t successful (can’t afford the best speakers for example) and just unleash their frustrations and anger. Because they can’t afford the best they simply denigrate the best industry products (which enjoy a high privileged price) and pretend they are happy with left overs and wanna-be latest and greatest (most of which will be forgotten in 3 years).

Many here would benefit from reading

I don't recognise this community from your description. I see this as a community of knowledgeable engineering-biased individuals who give their time and expertise freely for the education and edification of those less technically educated, but willing to learn. Unlike other audio forums, we have very few of the willingly ignorant who don't know and don't want to know, the "I Trust My Ears" brigade. There are plenty of forums that cater for that mentality, indeed won't allow discussion of measurements or blind testing, or questioning what someone claims they heard.

We don't pretend to be happy with 'Left-Overs', we're happy with what works well enough, regardless of price.

S.
 

nebunebu

Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2022
Messages
22
Likes
18
Silly question, why are some of the studios using 3 loudspeakers in their setup?
And how would that configuration look like with a stereo amplifier?
 
Top Bottom