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Simple HiRes setup?

jweaksnc

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Looking for a simple setup to jump into HiRes and I'm finding the options confusing. I plan to buy a new amp and new speakers. I have Amazon Music, but I'm willing to look at other sources. My question is getting from the source to the sound and keeping that HiRes/best quality sound. It appears that I could do this:

Source (phone or tablet) --> Streamer Device (like a WiiM) optical output --> DAC --> Amp --> Speakers

or...

Source (phone or tablet) --> Streamer Device (like a WiiM) analog output from built in DAC --> Amp --> Speakers

Which is better? The WiiM has a DAC so what's the benefit of separate DAC?

or...

If I bought something like a Denon PMA-600NE as my amp, then it has built-in Bluetooth and DAC, so that would be all I need, right?

New to this so I need KISS (Keep It Simple - I'm Stupid).

Thanks for any help.
 

NiagaraPete

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You can read the review here on the Wiim. The internal DAC seems to be the problem.

 

Beershaun

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Phones and tablets tend to have barriers due to resampling their output or locking it to 48khz. Id stick with the wiim or set up a raspberry pi as your streamer. Then Plug in a DAC like a Topping e30. At that point you could go headphones and add a headphone amp or drive a speaker amp like the Buckeye amps. Headphones would be simpler as you can get something that measures really well and don't have to add in room correction or eq software. If you go speakers then you should add in dsp room correction. A minidsp would be a simple option for speakers since they make a good streamer/dsp/DAC unit that you could just plug in an amp and speakers and go.
 
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jweaksnc

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You can read the review here on the Wiim. The internal DAC seems to be the problem.

Thank you.
 
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jweaksnc

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Phones and tablets tend to have barriers due to resampling their output or locking it to 48khz. Id stick with the wiim or set up a raspberry pi as your streamer. Then Plug in a DAC like a Topping e30. At that point you could go headphones and add a headphone amp or drive a speaker amp like the Buckeye amps. Headphones would be simpler as you can get something that measures really well and don't have to add in room correction or eq software. If you go speakers then you should add in dsp room correction. A minidsp would be a simple option for speakers since they make a good streamer/dsp/DAC unit that you could just plug in an amp and speakers and go.
Thank you. I believe I am understanding you. This is for a one room setup, not headphones. Either 2.0 or 2.1. The room correction and DSP stuff is probably too far for me. I am trying to keep it simple, and my total cost at $1200 max.
 

krabapple

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Looking for a simple setup to jump into HiRes and I'm finding the options confusing. I plan to buy a new amp and new speakers. I have Amazon Music, but I'm willing to look at other sources. My question is getting from the source to the sound and keeping that HiRes/best quality sound. It appears that I could do this:


brace yourself: "HiRes" or "HD" in the music/source description doesn't guarantee "best quality"
 

Hifinewb

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I use an iPhone -> Camera (USB) Adapter -> USB Cable -> MiniDSP Flex -> Balanced TRS Cables -> 2x Topping PA5

The iPhones can output HiRes Audio when they are connected to the (oddly named) Camera Adapter to convert the lightning port to USB

Hi-Res can be Lossless and not expensive at all.
IMG_2799.jpg
IMG_3055.jpg
 
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jweaksnc

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brace yourself: "HiRes" or "HD" in the music/source description doesn't guarantee "best quality"
Understood. The usual MP3 quality stuff I'm listening to (Spotify) just isn't getting it for me when I'm home and I want something better. I'm not really interested in sources other than streaming. It's fair to say I'm not pursuing the overall "best quality" just the best I can reasonably get from a HiRes streaming source and a simple $1200 system.

And I follow that HiRes and HD etc... are not necessarily indicative of the actual quality of the recording/source.
 

voodooless

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The usual MP3 quality stuff I'm listening to (Spotify) just isn't getting it for me when I'm home and I want something better.
Spotify isn’t MP3, it’s AAC, which is about twice as good at similar bitrate. Given what we know about high bitrate AAC, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll hear the difference to a lossless track.

But what are you actually looking for? Just a DAC and streamer? Also an amp? Speakers as well? Speakers have by far the biggest impact on sound quality. If you want to improve things, start there.
 

Blumlein 88

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IMO, best way to build a system is choose your speakers and work backwards. Everything else is easy. If you choose active speakers, they already have amplification. Then you have plenty of good choices for the source via streaming or otherwise and a good DAC need not be expensive at all. Or even with passive (non-powered) speakers choosing an amp is still pretty easy. Size of your room will help narrow down the speakers that will work for you along with how far away you'll be listening.

voodooless is right when he says speakers have the biggest impact on sound quality by far.
 
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jweaksnc

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Current stuff: Older Onkyo Reciever/Amp and older Bose speakers.
Spotify isn’t MP3, it’s AAC, which is about twice as good at similar bitrate. Given what we know about high bitrate AAC, it’s highly unlikely that you’ll hear the difference to a lossless track.

But what are you actually looking for? Just a DAC and streamer? Also an amp? Speakers as well? Speakers have by far the biggest impact on sound quality. If you want to improve things, start there.
Thank you. I will respond below.
 
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jweaksnc

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IMO, best way to build a system is choose your speakers and work backwards. Everything else is easy. If you choose active speakers, they already have amplification. Then you have plenty of good choices for the source via streaming or otherwise and a good DAC need not be expensive at all. Or even with passive (non-powered) speakers choosing an amp is still pretty easy. Size of your room will help narrow down the speakers that will work for you along with how far away you'll be listening.

voodooless is right when he says speakers have the biggest impact on sound quality by far.
Thank you. I will respond below.
 

DVDdoug

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Understood. The usual MP3 quality stuff I'm listening to (Spotify) just isn't getting it for me when I'm home and I want something better.
So you probably just want lossless "CD quality" and you probably don't need high-resolution.

I don't really know anything about Spotify "quality" but MP3 and AAC aren't necessarily terrible. With high-quality lossy compression it can sound identical to the uncompressed original or you might have to listen very carefully and A/B compare to hear the difference. I have an iPod classic full of "V0" MP3s connected to my car stereo and every time I've thought I was hearing a compression artifact it's turned-out that the CD has the same "defect". (I don't have golden ears and I've intentionally never tried training myself to hear compression artifacts.)

A lot of people think MP3 is terrible but then they "fail" a blind ABX test, or they find out that they have to listen very carefully to reliably hear a difference.

...Yes, a bad highly-compressed (low bitrate) MP3 can sound pretty bad!

I also have a shelf-full of concert DVDs with Dolby Surround, which is lossy compression. (I don't think I knew this when I got my 1st DVD player.). Most of them sound GREAT and although some of the discs also have an uncompressed stereo track, I'll choose the surround every time!

I only have a few Blu-Ray discs (which usually have lossless surround). I can't if they "sound better" because I don't have the same movies/concerts in both formats. (I'm pretty sure I couldn't hear the difference if I had a down-sampled copy.)

There is an even smaller difference between CD quality and high resolution. Almost nobody can hear the difference (at least under normal listening conditions) and then the trained listeners would have to listen carefully and A/B to identify the difference.

Sometimes the high resolution copy is mastered differently, or it could be a different mix, or even a different recording. In that case it can be "better" or "worse" depending on which one you prefer. In some cases the high resolution copy may be less dynamically compressed* but from what I've read that's rare.


*There is no relationship between dynamic compression and file compression like MP3. MP3 doesn't hurt the dynamics and in fact MP3 is capable of more dynamic range than CDs.
 
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jweaksnc

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Response to both posters above. Thanks for the help. I have not bought anything new as yet.

Old stuff: I have a set of powered speakers fed by an Echo device and/or a Chromecast device. When I go from Spotty to the same song on Amazon HD/HiRes it sounds better to me. Maybe it's an illusion. In another room, I have an older Onkyo reciver and some older Bose speakers. In there, I also think the HiRes sounds better then the Spotty. It's fuller and deeper.

Anyway, for new gear I'm looking at:

Speakers: Triangle Borea BR03
Amp: Cambridge AXA35 or possibly a Denon PMA600NE which has Blutooth and a DAC built-in.
Source: Android phone or tablet

It's the in between bits I don't have a good grasp on. DAC? Which one? Player/Streamer? Which one?

Or go a different direction? The setup posted above by Hifinewb is interesting. Over my budget but the addition of a DSP may be worth it.

My room is fairly large but I'm not looking for high volume.

So many possibilities, it boogles me.
 
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jweaksnc

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So you probably just want lossless "CD quality" and you probably don't need high-resolution.

I don't really know anything about Spotify "quality" but MP3 and AAC aren't necessarily terrible. With high-quality lossy compression it can sound identical to the uncompressed original or you might have to listen very carefully and A/B compare to hear the difference. I have an iPod classic full of "V0" MP3s connected to my car stereo and every time I've thought I was hearing a compression artifact it's turned-out that the CD has the same "defect". (I don't have golden ears and I've intentionally never tried training myself to hear compression artifacts.)

A lot of people think MP3 is terrible but then they "fail" a blind ABX test, or they find out that they have to listen very carefully to reliably hear a difference.

...Yes, a bad highly-compressed (low bitrate) MP3 can sound pretty bad!

I also have a shelf-full of concert DVDs with Dolby Surround, which is lossy compression. (I don't think I knew this when I got my 1st DVD player.). Most of them sound GREAT and although some of the discs also have an uncompressed stereo track, I'll choose the surround every time!

I only have a few Blu-Ray discs (which usually have lossless surround). I can't if they "sound better" because I don't have the same movies/concerts in both formats. (I'm pretty sure I couldn't hear the difference if I had a down-sampled copy.)

There is an even smaller difference between CD quality and high resolution. Almost nobody can hear the difference (at least under normal listening conditions) and then the trained listeners would have to listen carefully and A/B to identify the difference.

Sometimes the high resolution copy is mastered differently, or it could be a different mix, or even a different recording. In that case it can be "better" or "worse" depending on which one you prefer. In some cases the high resolution copy may be less dynamically compressed* but from what I've read that's rare.


*There is no relationship between dynamic compression and file compression like MP3. MP3 doesn't hurt the dynamics and in fact MP3 is capable of more dynamic range than CDs.

Thank you, That's helpful. I'm getting that I should put my money in good speakers, good power, and worry less about getting the "highest" or "best" specs coming off the source.
 

jbattman1016

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Don't overlook sonos as well, for a simple setup that might be all you need. I hear the play5 is nice, but I do not have experience with that.
 

Blumlein 88

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Yeah, there are a mind boggling number of choices. Have you heard the Triangle speakers and like them? I might suggest some powered JBL LSR 308 speakers (reviewed and measured here on ASR). A little more money for them than the Triangles, but you don't need a power amp. Then a DAC/preamp would do. Do you have any music sources other than streaming or off a computer you want to use?


 
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NiagaraPete

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NiagaraPete

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Looking for a simple setup to jump into HiRes and I'm finding the options confusing. I plan to buy a new amp and new speakers. I have Amazon Music, but I'm willing to look at other sources. My question is getting from the source to the sound and keeping that HiRes/best quality sound. It appears that I could do this:

Source (phone or tablet) --> Streamer Device (like a WiiM) optical output --> DAC --> Amp --> Speakers

or...

Source (phone or tablet) --> Streamer Device (like a WiiM) analog output from built in DAC --> Amp --> Speakers

Which is better? The WiiM has a DAC so what's the benefit of separate DAC?

or...

If I bought something like a Denon PMA-600NE as my amp, then it has built-in Bluetooth and DAC, so that would be all I need, right?

New to this so I need KISS (Keep It Simple - I'm Stupid).

Thanks for any help.
What is the budget? Always start with speakers and work backwards.
 
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