Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

[Billy Budapest]

Billy has been complaining about the cost/performance in this thread since May 2021. Not likely to change anybody's opinion on either side, just drops in to tell us what idiots we are for spending more than he would. Point made, moving on...

I haven’t called anyone an idiot (and would not do so), but I have called the $17,000 price outrageous, which no one has denied. I’m not “all about price“ and I’m not “all about SINAD,” but I am all about value. At $17,000, the Trinnov is not a high-value proposition. I understand that value-for-money isn’t everybody’s top concern.

 

[sarumbear]

I haven’t called anyone an idiot (and would not do so), but I have called the $17,000 price outrageous, which no one has denied.

If it makes you happy and couldn’t read between the lines of my replies, here it is: I don’t see Trinnov price as outrageous.

You made your point, but many disagrees and buys Trinnov’s hardware. That’s all.

 

[Golfx]

I haven’t called anyone an idiot (and would not do so), but I have called the $17,000 price outrageous, which no one has denied. I’m not “all about price“ and I’m not “all about SINAD,” but I am all about value. At $17,000, the Trinnov is not a high-value proposition. I understand that value-for-money isn’t everybody’s top concern.

Oh, I guess I should have bluntly disagreed with your flawed logic that 17K is outrageous.

Instead, I tried to explain why I purchased the trinnov using my money to achieve my goal of owning my trinnov.

Your persistent argument that 17k is too much seems to be supporting your decision not to purchase one.

So take comfort in your decision instead of trying to recruit others to join you by disparaging the trinnov using naive arguments.

 

[SamR]

Define mediocre. Dictionary says it means average. Is it, among the other AVPs measured? Denon is the only AVR/AVP that bests Trinnov with 3dB offering 5 less channels.

View attachment 236326

I can tell you after having had both the Denon 8500 and the Trinnov Altitude 32 in my system, the Denon “bests” the Trinnov in 0 ways.
Forget about measurements (which may or may not have been conducted appropriately). You can’t hear a 3dB difference, assuming it’s correct.
The Trinnov has a lower noise floor, better dynamics, and less distortion… in addition to making surround sound like nothing you’ve ever heard with a regular AVR. I have no affiliation to either company. I was just blown away.

 

[Billy Budapest]

So take comfort in your decision instead of trying to recruit others to join you by disparaging the trinnov using naive arguments.

What is “naive” about my position? I am neither young nor inexperienced and am confused as to what you mean. (I am not sure if you are a native English speaker and you might be using the word “naive” incorrectly).

In any event, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that spending $17,000 on the Trinnov is a value proposition. There are reasons for buying a Trinnov but value-for-money is not one of them. And that’s OK for certain purchasers, but not for me, nor I assume for the vast majority of readers of this forum.

 

[SamR]

Several people have replied that $17K IS a good value proposition because you will not need to upgrade the Trinnov. Consider that a Denon 8500 is $5K and every time a new surround format and/or 8K or what have you comes out, you will be selling the AVR and buying new. Every time you sell you lose money — especially when tech has changed. My Denon 3808 was basically worthless because it couldn’t handle 4K.

And that assumes performance is the same, which it is definitely nowhere near the same.

As always, value is in the eye of the beholder, but you can make a value case here, from a purely economic standpoint.

So, yeah, $17K for an endgame surround processor that nothing can touch and is infinitely upgradable makes a lot of financial sense. You’re going to spend more than that over ‘x’ years on AVRs that don’t come close to the Altitude’s performance.

 

[sarumbear]

What is “naive” about my position? I am neither young nor inexperienced and am confused as to what you mean. (I am not sure if you are a native English speaker and you might be using the word “naive” incorrectly).

In any event, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that spending $17,000 on the Trinnov is a value proposition. There are reasons for buying a Trinnov but value-for-money is not one of them. And that’s OK for certain purchasers, but not for me, nor I assume for the vast majority of readers of this forum.

We got it. You find Trinnov too expensive. You have not used the unit and hence your views are based on assumptions. I think you have entered troll territory.

 

[peng]

I can tell you after having had both the Denon 8500 and the Trinnov Altitude 32 in my system, the Denon “bests” the Trinnov in 0 ways.
Forget about measurements (which may or may not have been conducted appropriately). You can’t hear a 3dB difference, assuming it’s correct.
The Trinnov has a lower noise floor, better dynamics, and less distortion… in addition to making surround sound like nothing you’ve ever heard with a regular AVR. I have no affiliation to either company. I was just blown away.

Seems to me people can be more agreeable on at least something... If you want to forget about objective measurements, then okay you can say what you like and there would be nothing to agree or disagree with. By measurements though, there are definitely things the Denon AVR-X8500H or even the AV8805 "bests" the Trinnov in some ways, not 0 ways if again, you compare the measurements available on ASR. That does not mean a slightly worse number, example: IMD means the effect is audible, but it is not true to say the Trinnov has a lower noise floor or less distortion based on the ASR measurements. You can suspect the measurements may not been conducted appropriately but that would be speculation, not factual.

I am not one who would say $17,000 is outrageous because value judgment can be subjective by nature too. Must feel good to have a Trinnov for sure, and I wish I can afford one.

 

[Golfx]

What is “naive” about my position? I am neither young nor inexperienced and am confused as to what you mean. (I am not sure if you are a native English speaker and you might be using the word “naive” incorrectly).

In any event, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that spending $17,000 on the Trinnov is a value proposition. There are reasons for buying a Trinnov but value-for-money is not one of them. And that’s OK for certain purchasers, but not for me, nor I assume for the vast majority of readers of this forum.

Regarding my word choice of naive. I chose it for its appropriateness. You are naive about the trinnov. I was considering using the word clumsy though instead.

 

[Music707]

What is “naive” about my position? I am neither young nor inexperienced and am confused as to what you mean. (I am not sure if you are a native English speaker and you might be using the word “naive” incorrectly).

In any event, I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who thinks that spending $17,000 on the Trinnov is a value proposition. There are reasons for buying a Trinnov but value-for-money is not one of them. And that’s OK for certain purchasers, but not for me, nor I assume for the vast majority of readers of this forum.

Assuming that the purchase was a rational decision (and I definitely do not want to suspect otherwise), every Trinnov user regards the value of the gear purchased higher than (or at least as high as) the purchase price.

Obviously much of the Trinnov appeal results not from the hardware (where measurements are readily available), but from the room correction (where science-based comparisons/assessments seem to be missing). But that does not at all prevent a reasonable purchase decision based on an individual assessment.

 

[DonH56]

At the time (ca. 2019) I only found three choices for 16-channel processors, at around $8k (forget what this was), ~$15k (Trinnov), and ~$20k (Datasat), all in USD. Things have changed since then, of course, and there are other options for 16 channels now that were not available even a few years ago. I may have missed other options back then as well, but those were the three I found and were suggested to me by various folk. The $8k choice was missing some features and was much more limited in processing flexibility, Datasat was having "issues" at the time plus cost more, and I was able to get a good deal on a refurbished 24-channel SDP-75 (JBL Synthesis Trinnov Altitude 32) so ran with it. So the value for me was in getting 16 channels plus all the other features.

If I had only needed 7-9 channels I would probably have something else, frankly, as I would not have stretched for the SDP-75 at 3x-5x the cost of top Denon or Marantz models. Since getting the SDP-75 I have been very happy with it, and its processing power and flexibility is pretty amazing. So for me, at the time, the SDP-75 presented the best overall value for the channel count and features I needed. I have not done any HW upgrades, but the SW upgrades have provided some additional codecs and features I would have had to buy another (newer) AVR/AVP to get, so in my mind after about 4 years I am >2/3 of the way to break-even compared to buying two AVPs in the same time period, not allowing for the additional features the SDP/Trinnov brings to the table.

"Value" is tricky to define; a $5k watch, $100k amplifier, and $200k car may be good values to folk much wealthier than I, and of course the SDP-75 is "outrageously priced" to many (perhaps most) people. At retail (and no I did not pay anywhere near retail for anything) the SDP-75 cost me less than 10% of the total (retail) system cost including processor, amps, speakers, and sources.

Objectively, the SDP-75/Trinnov does not have as good SINAD (and perhaps other specs) as some of the other top (green) processors in the chart, but it is in the ballpark. I use measurements as a starting point, mainly to rule out poorly-performing units, then focus on the features I want as well as the price. I did not look at the chart again but IIRC most of the top units were not available when I bought my SDP-75 and/or do not have 16 channels.

The debate goes on... - Don

 

[Billy Budapest]

Regarding my word choice of naive. I chose it for its appropriateness. You are naive about the trinnov. I was considering using the word clumsy though instead.

And what would be “clumsy?” You seem to be taking this discussion personally. I never engage in personal attacks. They reflect poorly.

I’m not calling you ridiculous, I am calling Trinnov’s $17,000 price ridiculous in that it does not deliver $17,000 worth of value. I do not think any single audio component could.

 

[Billy Budapest]

At the time (ca. 2019) I only found three choices for 16-channel processors, at around $8k (forget what this was), ~$15k (Trinnov), and ~$20k (Datasat), all in USD. Things have changed since then, of course, and there are other options for 16 channels now that were not available even a few years ago. I may have missed other options back then as well, but those were the three I found and were suggested to me by various folk. The $8k choice was missing some features and was much more limited in processing flexibility, Datasat was having "issues" at the time plus cost more, and I was able to get a good deal on a refurbished 24-channel SDP-75 (JBL Synthesis Trinnov Altitude 32) so ran with it. So the value for me was in getting 16 channels plus all the other features.

If I had only needed 7-9 channels I would probably have something else, frankly, as I would not have stretched for the SDP-75 at 3x-5x the cost of top Denon or Marantz models. Since getting the SDP-75 I have been very happy with it, and its processing power and flexibility is pretty amazing. So for me, at the time, the SDP-75 presented the best overall value for the channel count and features I needed. I have not done any HW upgrades, but the SW upgrades have provided some additional codecs and features I would have had to buy another (newer) AVR/AVP to get, so in my mind after about 4 years I am >2/3 of the way to break-even compared to buying two AVPs in the same time period, not allowing for the additional features the SDP/Trinnov brings to the table.

"Value" is tricky to define; a $5k watch, $100k amplifier, and $200k car may be good values to folk much wealthier than I, and of course the SDP-75 is "outrageously priced" to many (perhaps most) people. At retail (and no I did not pay anywhere near retail for anything) the SDP-75 cost me less than 10% of the total (retail) system cost including processor, amps, speakers, and sources.

Objectively, the SDP-75/Trinnov does not have as good SINAD (and perhaps other specs) as some of the other top (green) processors in the chart, but it is in the ballpark. I use measurements as a starting point, mainly to rule out poorly-performing units, then focus on the features I want as well as the price. I did not look at the chart again but IIRC most of the top units were not available when I bought my SDP-75 and/or do not have 16 channels.

The debate goes on... - Don

Now THIS is a great response to my criticism of the Trinnov unit and its inherent value (or lack thereof).

 

[Golfx]

Now THIS is a great response to my criticism of the Trinnov unit and its inherent value (or lack thereof).

Yep, it wasn’t naive or clumsy.

 

[Billy Budapest]

We got it. You find Trinnov too expensive. You have not used the unit and hence your views are based on assumptions. I think you have entered troll territory.

It’s not that it is “too expensive”—I already stated that if I wanted to purchase one, I have the means to do so—but rather that it represents poor value at $17,000. As far as “trolling,” I think those people who are prolonging this debate are the ones “trolling” for reactions rather than constructively adding to the discussion.

 

[apgood]

That’s my point of view as I see value on my Trinnov.


Not everyone can now everything on the market. However, if you are interested building home theatres you should now them. Otherwise, it means you haven’t done your homework or hired a decent professional.

Meanwhile, I hadn’t heard Veblen either until you referred to him, but I’m a committed capitalist hence I shouldn’t be expected to know an obscure 19th century critic.


Show me another processor that offers up to 20 decoded and processed outputs. I think that number which increases to 60 outputs is what is called pushing it.

Then again everyone is different.

As far as I'm aware there are only 2 processors that decode up to 24 Atmos channels (Trinnov & StormAudio) and Trinnov is only with up to 32 Channels of decoded 32 Atmos channels. For both they are flexible channel assignments to not like the other brands. For example, there is no limit to the number of sub channels beyond the number of spare outputs. That is just one example of the flexibility of the processors that your average consumer processor doesn't provide.

 

[sarumbear]

As far as I'm aware there are only 2 processors that decode up to 24 Atmos channels (Trinnov & StormAudio) and Trinnov is only with up to 32 Channels of decoded 32 Atmos channels. For both they are flexible channel assignments to not like the other brands. For example, there is no limit to the number of sub channels beyond the number of spare outputs. That is just one example of the flexibility of the processors that your average consumer processor doesn't provide.

I demoed StormAudio but went with Trinnov. The main reason was video switching was slow and glitchy. The UI was excellent indeed but how often does one use it? Once set up I only use my Creston remote. Also, I liked that Trinnov process audio in software.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I don't have any firsthand experience with the Trinnov. My perspective on its value or lack thereof:

A bit of a n experience. I recently acquired a $50.oo IEM that has turned my world upside down. I am one of those who did acquire a Stax ESL, when I thought it was the best my money could buy ... This $50.oo In-Ear-Monitor, the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM, is superior by all objective metrics to the Stax-SR-007, it sounds that way to me too, the subject... I no longer consider my current , excellent, incredibly low distortion HE-6SE as a bargain.. Nor can I rationalize the purchase of a $4,000.oo headphones... because, now, $50.oo is does redefine the SOTA for me, perhaps for anyone who values objective metrics...

Let's go back to the Trinnov. For what it does (a lot) and how it does (extremely well), what else is available at 1/3 its price? What unit can decode 16 (32?) channels? Provide this level of customer support? Of Room Correction? Of subwoofer integration? Of upgrade-ability? Of ease of use (Yes).. Of <placeholder for whatever one wants >...????
Waiting for answers...

If there aren't any. The Trinnov and similar (very few) define their own category.. thus price.. At least in the here and now. You can afford , you get it. You can't, then get a lesser (yes!) lesser unit.

Peace.

 

[Lsc]

I haven’t called anyone an idiot (and would not do so), but I have called the $17,000 price outrageous, which no one has denied. I’m not “all about price“ and I’m not “all about SINAD,” but I am all about value. At $17,000, the Trinnov is not a high-value proposition. I understand that value-for-money isn’t everybody’s top concern.

I agree that it’s outrageous and I’m not sure why folks would be so offended by that statement. And it’s not a very good value. Having said that, I can see it being worth it to folks who really value home theater.

If I could just get it tomorrow without having felt the pain of dropping that $$$$, I’d do it. But I have other priorities unfortunately.

 

[Golfx]

Hi

I don't have any firsthand experience with the Trinnov. My perspective on its value or lack thereof:

A bit of a n experience. I recently acquired a $50.oo IEM that has turned my world upside down. I am one of those who did acquire a Stax ESL, when I thought it was the best my money could buy ... This $50.oo In-Ear-Monitor, the TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM, is superior by all objective metrics to the Stax-SR-007, it sounds that way to me too, the subject... I no longer consider my current , excellent, incredibly low distortion HE-6SE as a bargain.. Nor can I rationalize the purchase of a $4,000.oo headphones... because, now, $50.oo is does redefine the SOTA for me, perhaps for anyone who values objective metrics...

Let's go back to the Trinnov. For what it does (a lot) and how it does (extremely well), what else is available at 1/3 its price? What unit can decode 16 (32?) channels? Provide this level of customer support? Of Room Correction? Of subwoofer integration? Of upgrade-ability? Of ease of use (Yes).. Of <placeholder for whatever one wants >...????
Waiting for answers...

If there aren't any. The Trinnov and similar (very few) define their own category.. thus price.. At least in the here and now. You can afford , you get it. You can't, then get a lesser (yes!) lesser unit.

Peace.

Very well said.

Regarding Trinnov customer support—after I received mine I was having HDMI issues during setup that turned out to be caused by the Apple TV 4K. Nevertheless, I was getting helpful emails after only a 30min wait that continued from Paris even on Christmas Eve night!

Another point not mentioned is that the software design of Trinnov has a processing power advantage over chip based systems. For instance most of the brand name processors and receivers have to downsample hi-res music to 48khz when using room correction because they lack the processing power to do both. The A16 keeps hi-res music to 24/96 while the A32 keeps hi-res music to 24/192.