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Trinnov Altitude 16 Review (AV Processor)

Fidji

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For MSO you need to be able to calibrate the subwoofers as one with the MSO PEQ already applied (if you want the optimizer to flatten the response and let MSO just minimize the seat to seat variation). With MSO being free, though, it's surprising Trinnnov doesn't have something at least on par with it. After all, better bass integration is probably one of the more noticeable things you can improve in a system by digital means.
Indeed , actually it is quite common to use MiniDsp/MSO connected to Trinnov. Some people do it to save channels, some for MSO functionality.

Actually as I see it - with 2 subs, it does not make too much of a difference, MSO also can not work miracles, with 3 or more properly placed subs most of the issues take care by themselves anyway. I have kind of Geddes style sub placement and there is not much to do except of this one persistent room mode at 29hz that I PEQ manually prior to calibration. Combine this with properly treated room (membrane resonators) and you are OK.

As I understand it from Trinnov guys - they do not want brute force solution like DLBC or MSO. So let’s see.
 

jhenderson0107

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Indeed , actually it is quite common to use MiniDsp/MSO connected to Trinnov. Some people do it to save channels, some for MSO functionality.

Actually as I see it - with 2 subs, it does not make too much of a difference, MSO also can not work miracles, with 3 or more properly placed subs most of the issues take care by themselves anyway. I have kind of Geddes style sub placement and there is not much to do except of this one persistent room mode at 29hz that I PEQ manually prior to calibration. Combine this with properly treated room (membrane resonators) and you are OK.

As I understand it from Trinnov guys - they do not want brute force solution like DLBC or MSO. So let’s see.
This matches my experience.

I previously used the MSO -synthesized filters in a MiniDSP Flex on my three subs and achieved very good results. But when Adam calibrated my system, he replaced the MSO-generated filters with some PEQ within the Trinnov. The final system performance in the 15-80 Hz range was demonstrably flatter than when using the MSO filters in the Flex, even without any relocation of the subs in my space.

I don't believe that this is necessarily true in all rooms with all systems. Moreover, I suspect that if I had spent more time measuring in REW and optimizing with MSO I may have achieved similar to the professional calibrated performance. But good sub placement + intelligent PEQ can sometimes beat fully-automated correction.
 

hmt

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As I understand it from Trinnov guys - they do not want brute force solution like DLBC or MSO. So let’s see.
Imo they never stated this. In addition methods like MSO or DLBC not only seek to improve the response at the MLP but at all other seats. Employing 4 subs it is not difficult to pruduce a flat response at the MLP. Having consistency needs more than placing 4 subs and just hope for the best. In order to realy address room modes at the root cause one needs techniques like MSO or DLBC employ to cancel out modes or manipulate them.
 
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Fidji

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o they never stated this. In addition methods like MSO or DLBC not only seek to improve the response at the MLP but at all other seats. Employing 4 subs it is not difficult to pruduce a flat response at the MLP. Having consistency needs more than placing 4 subs and just hope for the best. In order to realy address room modes at the root cause one needs techniques like MSO or DLBC employ to cancel out modes or manipulate them.

They stated this in one of their webinars, as they seem to get this question quite often - they hired some scientists, etc. So, we are all waiting for the next big thing.

What I am trying to say - I get the same result with proper treatment + proper placement + bit of manual PEQ + Trinnov, as I was getting with MSO, or even better, as right now I am more inclined into REL 3D theatre setup than Mono MSO approach [It changes every couple of weeks]. Nothing against MSO, is a great tool, I have been using it with Audyssey and I think I have run it at least 50 times, after there have been lot of changes in my setup in the last couple of years.

So in my case is not the case of "hoping", I am lucky to have relative freedom how to place subs in my dedicated HT room. Probably I have lifted cumulative at least 10 tons of weight, while moving my subs and crawled equivalent of half-marathon trying to establish best position for the heavy bastards ;-) I am one of those guys really obsessed by Bassssss and I am OK with what I get from TRINNOV.

But it of course depends on the system - the more complex it gets, there are more benefits from using smth like TRINNOV. for 5.1 it would be probably waste of assets . Once you get to smth like 9.5.6 you really start to hear the difference. "reasonably flat bass response across multiple seats" becomes only the small part of overall sensation.
 

hmt

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Well, for bass management and multisub reasonably flat bass response across multiple seats is the goal. I am also pretty shure that trinnov is working on something similar but the rumour is that it will take some time.
 

Billy Budapest

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It's all about use case really. Do you know of any processor that can independently provide active crossover implementation for speaker drivers to be actively amplified? Bryston and many other high end speaker companies sell speakers without a passive crossover so you can actively cross-them over - the Trinnov can serve this duty. For me, I enjoy the object visualizer that allows me to see whether Atmos effects are really working overhead or is it just bogus when a movie says "Atmos" but there's literally nothing happening above. Most importantly, is the depth and flexibility of its room EQ system which allows you to place speakers in less than optimized locations due to physical limitations and its processor will map them for effective surround. So if you have an ideal room with perfect speaker placement and great speakers, you are less likely to benefit from all the bells and whistles. But if you are a geek and want to dive deeper into optimizing your system for immersive sound, nothing makes it easier to dive deeper into room optimization than Trinnov. Sure you can do it with REW and miniDSP, but it's a bit more time consuming and troubleshooting to get to the same destination.
BUT $17,000. Yes, if I wanted it, I could buy one. However, that’s just . . . excessive. And that’s not even taking into account its mediocre performance on the test bench.
 
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SamR

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Hahaha. I love this forum. It all comes down to dollars and test bench scores here.
What owners are saying, myself included, is that nothing comes close. Whether you feel it’s worth the price is a personal matter.
All I know is that moving from the Denon 8500, I realized I had never heard true surround sound until the Trinnov. I know it sounds trite, but it’s true. The fact that it corrects for more than just EQ and the ability to use an external DAC sealed the deal. It’s also fully reprogrammable, so when that AVR is in the landfill, this will still be current. Think about $17K as three Denon 8500s (and its replacements) - none of which will likely match the audio performance of the Trinnov.
 

GXAlan

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Hahaha. I love this forum. It all comes down to dollars and test bench scores here.
What owners are saying, myself included, is that nothing comes close. Whether you feel it’s worth the price is a personal matter.
All I know is that moving from the Denon 8500, I realized I had never heard true surround sound until the Trinnov. I know it sounds trite, but it’s true. The fact that it corrects for more than just EQ and the ability to use an external DAC sealed the deal. It’s also fully reprogrammable, so when that AVR is in the landfill, this will still be current. Think about $17K as three Denon 8500s (and its replacements) - none of which will likely match the audio performance of the Trinnov.

I had the Sherwood R972 with Trinnov. I agree with the power of the full remapping especially for anyone who doesn’t have a perfect custom built environment with perfect everything.

I still like my scrappy STR-ZA5000es because it’s center lift feature lets me get a better center image by combing my front heights with the center channel. For music, it’s not as good as my UB9000/PM-10 but for home theater? Absolutely enjoyable.

It’s one of the reasons people like Yamaha even though it too has had struggles with its measurements.

It’s a shame that Sherwood never kept up with AVRs with Trinnov.
 

Billy Budapest

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Hahaha. I love this forum. It all comes down to dollars and test bench scores here.
It’s not “dollars.” It’s $17,000. That’s just outrageous. No matter what the use case scenario, buying this unit is not a value proposition. And yes, I could easily afford to buy one if I wanted to. BUT $17,000.
 

GXAlan

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It’s not “dollars.” It’s $17,000. That’s just outrageous. No matter what the use case scenario, buying this unit is not a value proposition. And yes, I could easily afford to buy one if I wanted to. BUT $17,000.
It’s sort of like buying a fancy Rolex or faster engine in a Porsche. The nice thing about a nice home theater setup is that more than one person can enjoy the movie.

Right after 9/11, people invested in home theater since there was a fear of travel and I think the pandemic has translated into a surge.
 

DonH56

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It’s not “dollars.” It’s $17,000. That’s just outrageous. No matter what the use case scenario, buying this unit is not a value proposition. And yes, I could easily afford to buy one if I wanted to. BUT $17,000.
Depends upon your definition of "value". I went through through several high-end AVR/AVP units before getting the Trinnov (SDP-75, in my case) easily exceeding $10k in expenditures over <10 years. The last one was "upgradeable" but ended up being a hair-pulling exercise in frustration at times, with promised upgrades months or years late and some never. I figured the Trinnov would save me that, provide a real upgrade path in features and such, and last long enough to justify the cost (I spoke with folk who had owned them 10+ years and were current with all the latest codecs and other features). I don't like swapping gear in and out any more and the performance, albeit poor compared to standalone DACs, is better than many other processors, and like many my overall performance is limited by my speakers and not my electronics.

It was way more than I ever expected to spend, even at a substantial discount through getting a factory refurb, but looking at the high-end prices in Stereophile and such I would not call it "outrageous". E.g. $80k for a preamp, $150k for an amp, $500k+ for speakers strike me as more "outrageous" but if people can afford them more power to them. It is comparable in price to Datasat and some other similar units. I am not aware of any current 16-32 channel units that are significantly less (and there were none except the likes of Datasat when I got mine several years ago).

After some 50+ years piddling with audio (and then HT) stuff I decided this would be my end-game processor. Fingers crossed... ;) - Don
 

hmt

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The law of decreasing returns also applies for home cinema. From a simple denon X1700 without proper audyssey it is a big step up to an X3700 with MultEQ XT or 32. Thr Stip up to Dirac is smaller and from there to a trinnov also. But that does not mean that there is no value. People still make the mistake an get suck on some SINAD measurements that are rather meaningless when they surpass some 80s when it comes to distortion.
 

Golfx

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It’s not “dollars.” It’s $17,000. That’s just outrageous. No matter what the use case scenario, buying this unit is not a value proposition. And yes, I could easily afford to buy one if I wanted to. BUT $17,000.
Some of us like owning aspirational products. Money is a tool to achieve my goals—not a threshold hindrance or how I measure happiness of my decisions.

The trinnov has a mind-boggling amount of “factorial” customizations before sound arrives at our ears. It was a joyful journey learning how to set it up. I learned a lot more about delivery of sound because of that.
 

sarumbear

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BUT $17,000. Yes, if I wanted it, I could buy one. However, that’s just . . . excessive. And that’s not even taking into account its mediocre performance on the test bench.
Define mediocre. Dictionary says it means average. Is it, among the other AVPs measured? Denon is the only AVR/AVP that bests Trinnov with 3dB offering 5 less channels.

1665332969538.png
 
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voodooless

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From a simple denon X1700 without proper audyssey it is a big step up to an X3700 with MultEQ XT or 32. Thr Stip up to Dirac is smaller and from there to a trinnov also.
The big problem with all of these comparisons is that they are never very objective. And I get why: it’s really hard to do. You’ll have to compare many different scenarios, and there are so many variables to account for.
 

sarumbear

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It’s not “dollars.” It’s $17,000. That’s just outrageous. No matter what the use case scenario, buying this unit is not a value proposition. And yes, I could easily afford to buy one if I wanted to. BUT $17,000.
Is a Bentley, Porsche, Merc, BMW, V8 F150 a value proposition? Almost one in five new cars buyers in the US, didn't think their actions were outrageous.

I am very happy that we have manufacturers out there who market products that are not a value proposition but push the technology.
 

Billy Budapest

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Is a Bentley, Porsche, Merc, BMW, V8 F150 a value proposition? Almost one in five new cars buyers in the US, didn't think their actions were outrageous.

I am very happy that we have manufacturers out there who market products that are not a value proposition but push the technology.
Not an apt comparison. Luxury automobile cost is related to the production cost. The Trinnov is not. Most people see value in the automobiles you listed above. On the other hand, most people have never heard of Trinnov. It’s not a Veblen/status symbol good. Plus, Trinnov isn’t pushing the state of the art. Not at $17,000.
 

sarumbear

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Not an apt comparison. Luxury automobile cost is related to the production cost. The Trinnov is not. Most people see value in the automobiles you listed above.
That’s my point of view as I see value on my Trinnov.

On the other hand, most people have never heard of Trinnov. It’s not a Veblen/status symbol good.
Not everyone can now everything on the market. However, if you are interested building home theatres you should now them. Otherwise, it means you haven’t done your homework or hired a decent professional.

Meanwhile, I hadn’t heard Veblen either until you referred to him, but I’m a committed capitalist hence I shouldn’t be expected to know an obscure 19th century critic.

Plus, Trinnov isn’t pushing the state of the art. Not at $17,000.
Show me another processor that offers up to 20 decoded and processed outputs. I think that number which increases to 60 outputs is what is called pushing it.

Then again everyone is different.
 
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DonH56

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Product prices are based on more than just production costs. R&D/development, sales and support, production volume, etc. Lots of factors beyond the cost of raw materials goes into the price of goods and services.

Features like the Optimizer, number of channels and their expandability/flexibility, different codecs and continual updates and upgrades, ability to control filters and target curves to a degree well beyond most other products, etc. matter to some; it is not always about the numbers, especially when the performance numbers are in the top rank of comparable products and unlikely to limit overall system performance.

Billy has been complaining about the cost/performance in this thread since May 2021. Not likely to change anybody's opinion on either side, just drops in to tell us what idiots we are for spending more than he would. Point made, moving on...
 
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GXAlan

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Not an apt comparison. Luxury automobile cost is related to the production cost. The Trinnov is not. Most people see value in the automobiles you listed above. On the other hand, most people have never heard of Trinnov. It’s not a Veblen/status symbol good. Plus, Trinnov isn’t pushing the state of the art. Not at $17,000.

It’s not pushing state of the art for SINAD but it is pushing state of the art for speaker remapping in 3D space.
 
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