The IEM Harman Target 2019 sounds "off" to me. Is it just me?

[Dazerdoreal]

I recently purchased an Etymotic ER4XR. If you do so, you get a certificate with measurements that the drivers are matched within 1 DB.
They already sounded pretty great to my ears out of the box. Still, I was curious how they sound if I EQ them to the Harman Target.

I used the Harman tuning of Oratory1990.. it sounded super "off" to me. Cheap, wishy-washy, no mids, very "incorrect". And to be clear, this it is surely not Oratorys fault. I am just surprised how this target can be considered a serious standard among audiophiles.

This is not the first time where I didnt like the sound of a harman-tuned phone. I thought the main reason for this was unit variation. But in case of the ER4XR, I can safely assume that the unit variation is low. My resonance peak is also at the same point according to pink noise (~9500hz). So this really seems to be how an IEM is supposed to sound according to industry standards. Urgh.

Afterwards I vaguely tuned the ER4XR to the Crinacle Target (IEF Neutral) and added 4DB additional bass. Now *that* does sound right. I saw that the high-end "Monarch" IEM is tuned similarly to mine now. By the way, Crinacle himself also seems to prefer it this way according to many phones he tuned, e.g. the Dioko.

This might sound elitist, but maybe the IEM Harman target is too "mainstream"? Or otherwise, are the measurements of the Etymotics maybe not transferable on other phones because of their deep ear fit?

 

[_thelaughingman]

I thought Etymotics have their own in house tuning/curve that they use? There are plenty of curves and targets that can be used, i think IEM' and how they sound are very subjective to the listener and their tastes. Don't forget that each person' ear anatomy is unique and different thus a target/curve doesn't fit all needs.

 

[Jimbob54]

What target do you tune your over-ears to?

 

[Dazerdoreal]

I thought Etymotics have their own in house tuning/curve that they use? There are plenty of curves and targets that can be used, i think IEM' and how they sound are very subjective to the listener and their tastes. Don't forget that each person' ear anatomy is unique and different thus a target/curve doesn't fit all needs.

Yes, there is an Etymotic target, and as to be expected, the ER4XR matches it very well.

But that suits my question. Does that mean that the Harman target is not supposed to work for Etymotics? (because of their In-Ear fit)

What target do you tune your over-ears to?

I tend to like the Harman 2013 target, but with slightly less gain around 2000hz. So I like my over-ear phones a bit more dark/mid-centric in comparison to Harman 2018.

But Over-Ear Harman 2018 is still fine as long as the measurements are correct. In-Ear Harman 2019 severely lacks mids to my ears.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

My IEM preference is a bit of a combination of Harman19v2 and Crinacle target. Harman up to about 1kHz then Crinacle up to about 8kHz and Harman from there. Harman in the 1-8kHz region is a bit too much for me.

For over-ear the Harman18 target is almost spot on for me though.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Just a thought: Have you tried different inserts? IEM performance seems to be very dependent on the fit...


Peace.

 

[Dazerdoreal]

Hi

Just a thought: Have you tried different inserts? IEM performance seems to be very dependent on the fit...


Peace.

I think so too. But I think this is not the problem here. I found good EQ settings for me, but it is far from Harman 2019. I even think the default setting is surprisingly good.

 

[Madlop26]

The Harman Target is just an average of a population sound preference, gives you a quite important information and is a great achievement. But mathematically speaking most of us will fall around it, not necessarily in the death center, your preference will fall barely off to greatly off from it., it is expected. Nothing wrong with that.

 

[Dro]

I have an Etymotic ER2XR and also the Truthear Zero. The ER2XR have worse Harman tracking, but sound better to me. I think the IEM Harman target has overdone its bass shelf and treble boost.

 

[markanini]

Maybe you should start with an IEM that has a native response closer to Harman or whatever target fits your preference. It's a common misconception that the target was created to EQ various IEMs headphones to it, but that was never the intention and neither Harman or oratory1990 gave any guarantees that the results would sound better to everyone.

 

[Peluvius]

I recently purchased an Etymotic ER4XR. If you do so, you get a certificate with measurements that the drivers are matched within 1 DB.
They already sounded pretty great to my ears out of the box. Still, I was curious how they sound if I EQ them to the Harman Target.

I used the Harman tuning of Oratory1990.. it sounded super "off" to me. Cheap, wishy-washy, no mids, very "incorrect". And to be clear, this it is surely not Oratorys fault. I am just surprised how this target can be considered a serious standard among audiophiles.

This is not the first time where I didnt like the sound of a harman-tuned phone. I thought the main reason for this was unit variation. But in case of the ER4XR, I can safely assume that the unit variation is low. My resonance peak is also at the same point according to pink noise (~9500hz). So this really seems to be how an IEM is supposed to sound according to industry standards. Urgh.

Afterwards I vaguely tuned the ER4XR to the Crinacle Target (IEF Neutral) and added 4DB additional bass. Now *that* does sound right. I saw that the high-end "Monarch" IEM is tuned similarly to mine now. By the way, Crinacle himself also seems to prefer it this way according to many phones he tuned, e.g. the Dioko.

This might sound elitist, but maybe the IEM Harman target is too "mainstream"? Or otherwise, are the measurements of the Etymotics maybe not transferable on other phones because of their deep ear fit?

Most people have a preference for Vanilla, probably frustrating for some who don't since the market preference will usually shape focus.

 

[Chromatischism]

My experience with the Harman 2019 IE target is with the Truthear x Crinacle Zero's.

If these are truly representative of the Harman IE target, it isn't for me. The upper midrange is overcooked and shifts the timbre of everything unnaturally upward.

I can't comment on the bass because the bass on this IEM doesn't follow Harman.

Here is my EQ target (in blue) plotted against the IEF Neutral and Harman 2019 IE v2 targets:

With this, I can't find anything wrong with the sound. I'm closer to IEF Neutral now.

Harman is simply out of the question and not listenable for me.

 

[CedarX]

The Harman Target is just an average of a population sound preference, gives you a quite important information and is a great achievement. But mathematically speaking most of us will fall around it, not necessarily in the death center, your preference will fall barely off to greatly off from it., it is expected. Nothing wrong with that.

You’re probably right, but I believe the Harman target was developed to maximize the score preference, similar to the process of optimizing a cost function but slightly different from an “average”… Anyway, per Sean Olive himself, it should be used as a guideline, a good starting point, so I completely agree with you on this point and it can sound “off” to many…
The Etymotic’s with their super-deep insertion may not be the best IEMs to discuss the merits of the Harman target: more bass than measured due to better “bone conduction” effect as compared to more standard IEMs and measurement couplers not really representative of the Ety’s deep insertion.

 

[oleg87]

I find the EQ tweaks needed to get my various in-ears to approximate it overly sizzly in the 5-6khz region - its tonality is not a great match for the over-ear target to me.

 

[markanini]

I find the EQ tweaks needed to get my various in-ears to approximate it overly sizzly in the 5-6khz region - its tonality is not a great match for the over-ear target to me.

IEMs exist that are not elevated in that range. Some cost no more than 15 EUR. The target can't be blamed.

 

[Feelas]

I used the Harman tuning of Oratory1990.. it sounded super "off" to me. Cheap, wishy-washy, no mids, very "incorrect". And to be clear, this it is surely not Oratorys fault. I am just surprised how this target can be considered a serious standard among audiophiles.

Excuse me, but that description is not quite scientific and understandable.

Bright, thin DF-like target w/o bass ain't good neither.

Also remember that Harman is not defined for frequencies >8kHz, because coupler's accuracy is bad there.

 

[markanini]

Excuse me, but that description is not quite scientific and understandable.

Bright, thin DF-like target w/o bass ain't good neither.

Also remember that Harman is not defined for frequencies >8kHz, because coupler's accuracy is bad there.

I wouldn't go as far as invalidating all subjective impressions, they can be fairly reliable as an indication of faults with your system or source material or expectations when individual measurements are not available. The hyperbolic tone even tells strongly of an expectations fault.

 

[Feelas]

I wouldn't go as far as invalidating all subjective impressions, they can be fairly reliable as an indication of faults with your system or source material or expectations when individual measurements are not available. The hyperbolic tone even tells strongly of an expectations fault.

Yea, but "Cheap, wishy-washy, no mids, very "incorrect"." is on entire other level of 'impossible to talk about.' Not to mention the assumed snob snob appeal of other curves.

 

[RayDunzl]

The IEM Harman Target 2019 sounds "off" to me. Is it just me?

"Dr. Olive and his researchers conducted blind studies on 283 individuals in four countries and 11 test locations. Although most of the participants were Harman employees, the science team was careful to achieve diversity in their gender, age, and listening experience."

You may or may not like what the average (?) listener likes.

I don't worry about it.

 

[markanini]

Yea, but "Cheap, wishy-washy, no mids, very "incorrect"." is on entire other level of 'impossible to talk about.' Not to mention the assumed snob snob appeal of other curves.

I think the snob taste is a moving target, flavor of the month, driven by marketing over objectivity. Still all the red flags of expectation error in OP. Just because information seems inane doesn't mean it can't interpreted.