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8030C and KH120 - Subjective Listening Tests

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jumper981

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I haven’t had the opportunity to produce/mix on them.
I listened some of my mixed tracks on Spotify and some of my references for checking (tracks that I know really really good).
Most of my choices were purely technical electronic music (like DnB, and mixed IDM genres)
I also tried some of known tracks that are really good mixed and mastered.
 

Digby

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This is a video I find informative:


Significant differences, to my ear, between the sound of the KH80DSP and 8020D. The 8020D is similar in the video to how I found the 8030C in person, a slightly tizzy high response, very spacious (to my mind somewhat artificial in this regard, I prefer less of this effect) and with an unusual bass response, kick drums seem somewhat monotone and vague, but deeper bass doesn't seem lacking compared to KH80DSP. I think the video does well showing the differences between the two speakers.

I'd be quite surprised if anyone liked these two speakers (or brands, even) equally. The presentation seems quite different, so you will likely favour one or the other.
 
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dfuller

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with an unusual bass response, kick drums seem somewhat monotone and vague
This is exactly what I've noticed with Genelecs too! Like, all of them. Some thought is maybe it's very high group delay, but I don't think that's everything. It may be how they tune the ports.

Whenever there are faster parts with kick drums they seem to fall apart on most of the Genelecs I've used. For example:

 
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changer

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If these are mounted to the wall you could check whether any of the dip switches are on. In this position the 4th switch (-4db bass) should be engaged (as per Genelec recommendation).
Impossible, as they are too close to the wall for me to look at the switches. I would be surprised, however, if they had not been set up according to Genelec’s instructions.
 

YSC

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This is a video I find informative:


Significant differences, to my ear, between the sound of the KH80DSP and 8020D. The 8020D is similar in the video to how I found the 8030C in person, a slightly tizzy high response, very spacious (to my mind somewhat artificial in this regard, I prefer less of this effect) and with an unusual bass response, kick drums seem somewhat monotone and vague, but deeper bass doesn't seem lacking compared to KH80DSP. I think the video does well showing the differences between the two speakers.

I'd be quite surprised if anyone liked these two speakers (or brands, even) equally. The presentation seems quite different, so you will likely favour one or the other.
sadly I can't really hear the difference... or it's coz I am using a pair of 8030, so it all becomes the genelec tone;)
 

Friedrich

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Impossible, as they are too close to the wall for me to look at the switches. I would be surprised, however, if they had not been set up according to Genelec’s instructions.
I would take them off and have a look. If none of the switches are on, it's a mess. I have mine close to back wall and without -4db bass engaged, the bass is overdone.
 

changer

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I do not think the bass is overdone. It sounds very good. I was however surprised to hear such good bass from small speakers like these. Also, I cannot take them off the walls, they are not mine.
 

preload

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Hi to all!

In this week I tried both the KH120 and the 8030C models next to each one during production and mixing tests in a treated room.
Despite the measurements posted here on ASR, i was actually not that impressed by the Genelecs.
I’m a measurements guy and today for the first time I listened “timbre” differences between speakers that perform similar in measurements.
The folks here that believe loudspeaker measurements correlate precisely with what they hear are going to have a heart attack.

Thanks for sharing your listening impressions.
 

xaviescacs

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This is a video I find informative:


Significant differences, to my ear, between the sound of the KH80DSP and 8020D. The 8020D is similar in the video to how I found the 8030C in person, a slightly tizzy high response, very spacious (to my mind somewhat artificial in this regard, I prefer less of this effect) and with an unusual bass response, kick drums seem somewhat monotone and vague, but deeper bass doesn't seem lacking compared to KH80DSP. I think the video does well showing the differences between the two speakers.

I'd be quite surprised if anyone liked these two speakers (or brands, even) equally. The presentation seems quite different, so you will likely favour one or the other.
Isn't bass the only difference? Pieces with no bass sound essentially equal...
 

Hellasärö

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Hi to all!

In this week I tried both the KH120 and the 8030C models next to each one during production and mixing tests in a treated room.
Despite the measurements posted here on ASR, i was actually not that impressed by the Genelecs.
I’m a measurements guy and today for the first time I listened “timbre” differences between speakers that perform similar in measurements.

Listening test summary:

KH120:
Bass was really good and controlled (like “dry”), and actually not that “pumped” relying by the fact that it’s reflex-ported; seems was coming from a sealed one.
What actually surprised me about the KH120, was transients and details of the tweeter despite they have a somewhat “dark” timbre; every percussion and hats was coming out really defined on both transient and consistency of the spectrum, and while equalizing channels I was able to listen every small change in the equalizer (+- 0.3 dB)
Highs are a touch darker for my preference, I can describe them like “not coming from a ribbon” but I really really liked them.

8030C:
Bass was good and seemed deeper in frequency but a bit uncontrolled next to the Neumann.
What really doesn’t have a good impact on me was the highs (like on center frequency of 2K and disliked much the highest from 8K to 20K, probably for it’s metal dome, don’t know); they were likely not cohesive on listening test with professional masters done on Kii Three’s room and seemed much confused and not that clearly presented as the Neumann.

That is a highly subjective review, despite both of them were tested under the same conditions in the same period of time (3 days).
I actually have done some measurements of them in this room, for checking their accuracy to the measurements done here on ASR (my measurements was actually good next to the ASR measurements).

Don’t take this as a review of those speakers, but as a prove to myself that despite really good measurements (and they are fundamental), listening tests are also significant and you should pick the one that is good for you and not just for measurements.
I’m a “trained” listener.

Next is to try 8341A and KH310.

Cheers!
I’ve owned the KH120 and sold them because they had a bit of an unnatural u-shaped response (1khz-20khz). Here’s a video comparing them to the KH310 where this can be seen (and heard) in a in room measurement. They were not bad, but a bit veiled and fatiguing, at least to my ears.

I also compared them to the Presonus Sceptre S8, which I found more neutral. I had the same ”u-shape” problem with Genelec 8050. To my ears the Presonus was the best of the bunch.

 

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Hellasärö

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I’ve owned the KH120 and sold them because they had a bit of an unnatural u-shaped response (1khz-20khz). Here’s a video comparing them to the KH310 where this can be seen (and heard) in a in room measurement. They were not bad, but a bit veiled and fatiguing, at least to my ears.

I also compared them to the Presonus Sceptre S8, which I found more neutral. I had the same ”u-shape” problem with Genelec 8050. To my ears the Presonus was the best of the bunch.

Here’s a comparison between the Presonus Sceptre S8 and the Genelec 8050.

 

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changer

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This is a video I find informative:


The 8020D is similar in the video to how I found the 8030C in person, a slightly tizzy high response, very spacious (to my mind somewhat artificial in this regard, I prefer less of this effect) and with an unusual bass response, kick drums seem somewhat monotone and vague, but deeper bass doesn't seem lacking compared to KH80DSP. I think the video does well showing the differences between the two speakers.
It is, however, not a sensible comparison.
This is beautiful: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ds/genelec-8030c-studio-monitor-review.14795/
This is not: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/genelec-g2-8020-measurements.18076/
No wonder this speaker here is much more enjoyable: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/neumann-kh-80-dsp-monitor-review.11018/
In the video that is comparing the smaller models, I find the clarity and preciseness of the KH80's image is just great!

And yes, the KH310 is known to present a much wider image. In this thread, someone even visualized it. But look what happens after the phase correction: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...a-impressions-and-in-room-measurements.23034/
 

Digby

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sadly I can't really hear the difference... or it's coz I am using a pair of 8030, so it all becomes the genelec tone;)
Have you tried headphones? Even with Genelecs, the two speakers should sound somewhat different. To me they sound different enough, I think I could pick the correct speaker probably 8 or 9 times out of 10. The wider/more diffuse soundstage of the Genelec is what characterises it the most, and what gives it away.

Isn't bass the only difference? Pieces with no bass sound essentially equal...
Not to my ears, there are definitely differences elsewhere, but then all pieces have some bass. Some of the biggest differences seem to be in the violin track.

Maybe not, but the 8020Ds in the video have a very similar sound signature to what I got with the 8030C, so might be a fair example of the 'Genelec sound'. Bracing for impact of all the people ready to say Youtube videos show nothing, your ears are deceptive, you're imagining things and so on.
 

Stephen

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Hi @jumper981, thank you very much for your comparison and impression. I had exactely the same feeling comparing these two speakers. Now the Neumann are on my desk and never had any regret...


 

YSC

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Have you tried headphones? Even with Genelecs, the two speakers should sound somewhat different. To me they sound different enough, I think I could pick the correct speaker probably 8 or 9 times out of 10. The wider/more diffuse soundstage of the Genelec is what characterises it the most, and what gives it away.


Not to my ears, there are definitely differences elsewhere, but then all pieces have some bass. Some of the biggest differences seem to be in the violin track.


Maybe not, but the 8020Ds in the video have a very similar sound signature to what I got with the 8030C, so might be a fair example of the 'Genelec sound'. Bracing for impact of all the people ready to say Youtube videos show nothing, your ears are deceptive, you're imagining things and so on.
using headphones and turn louder than I normally would listen reveal subtle but noticable difference in stage wideness, still really close to my ears, different but IMO I would be satisified by either of these
 

HarmonicTHD

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sadly I can't really hear the difference... or it's coz I am using a pair of 8030, so it all becomes the genelec tone;)
Yep. No difference on my KH80s and KH750. ;-)
 

ctrl

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I’m a measurements guy and today for the first time I listened “timbre” differences between speakers that perform similar in measurements.
Your ears are definitely better than your eyes ;)

The measurements suggest a significant difference in tonality.
The axis frequency responses are 1-2dB apart, but almost more importantly, listening window, sound power (and ER) differ significantly in the range 1-4kHz and above 7kHz.
All these curves (LW, SP, ER) represent "averages" from single measurements, so deviations of 1-2dB (over wider frequency ranges) are expected to show up as audible tonality differences.

(Unfortunately, there were only different measurement sources for the comparison)
1665062662236.png

Source: https://pierreaubert.github.io/spinorama/

listening tests are also significant and you should pick the one that is good for you and not just for measurements.
Definitely!
 
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YSC

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Your ears are definitely better than your eyes ;)

The measurements suggest a significant difference in tonality.
The axis frequency responses are 1-2dB apart, but almost more importantly, listening window, sound power (and ER) differ significantly in the range 1-4kHz and above 7kHz.
All these curves (LW, SP, ER) represent "averages" from single measurements, so deviations of 1-2dB (over wider frequency ranges) are expected to show up as audible tonality differences.

(Unfortunately, there were only different measurement sources for the comparison)
View attachment 235561


Definitely!
the difference is there and to the degree I notice the difference, mostly in the highs/air region. but easily masked by environment noise.

in this category of performance I personally think that one could be satisified by either of these, I ended up choosing the 8030 instead of the KH120 mainly due to it uses class D which is less of a concern in hot tropical climate, and that it is $100 cheaper in Thomann during my shopping days, which is significant difference to me given similar extension, and for subsequent sub purchase the 7040 being cheaper, slimmer and extends good enough fits my usecase more. I would likely decide the opposite if the Neumann was cheaper back then
 

ctrl

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the difference is there and to the degree I notice the difference, mostly in the highs/air region.
Agree, the audibility of the differences depends on the listening environment. The higher the direct sound ratio, the smaller the tonal differences are likely to be. In an environment with diffusers and little absorption, the differences should be more audible.

is less of a concern in hot tropical climate
lucky you ;)
 
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