If this thread were an episode of Top Gear, James May would be saying “I think he’s referring to a gentleman’s sausage.”
Actually I've never heard 'organ pipe' refer to anything except, generically, any pipe that's part of a pipe organ (never capitalized), or, a type of cactus . So I've probably no idea what you are talking about...nor why it made you spit your coffee. Nor why the other guy kept writing "Organ Pipe".
I assumed you corrected it to “pipe organ”, as “organ pipe” looked like a possible male reference.
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I've never heard one called, even jokingly, an 'organ pipe'. Double entendres about 'pipe organs' abound, though.
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Maybe there are native language issues here. <shrug>
Well, listening alone without control for bias isn’t very informative. So while I’ve heard VLRs at a dealer (my dad, RIP, had 5a Carbons and regular 5s before that), their response is obviously colored in a way that other objectively tested Vandies are not.Question who if any of you have actually listened to these speakers?
I haveQuestion who if any of you have actually listened to these speakers?
Well, listening alone without control for bias isn’t very informative. So while I’ve heard VLRs at a dealer (my dad, RIP, had 5a Carbons and regular 5s before that), their response is obviously colored in a way that other objectively tested Vandies are not.
The 5a Carbons are really very impressive, though my dad had them tuned for too much bass. He might strike me down if I adjust them!
The 5a Carbons are way better ( sorry, not sure if you are being sarcastic).They have the process to tune them on the Vandy site.
One can download the “Vandertones” which has the tones you tune the pots to.
I think that the 5A carbons are probably a bit better than the VLRs, and for a bookshelf.
Question who if any of you have actually listened to these speakers?
Well, listening alone without control for bias isn’t very informative. So while I’ve heard VLRs at a dealer (my dad, RIP, had 5a Carbons and regular 5s before that), their response is obviously colored in a way that other objectively tested Vandies are not.
The 5a Carbons are really very impressive, though my dad had them tuned for too much bass. He might strike me down if I adjust them!
I feel bad for posting this, because Vandersteen seems like a very nice guy and committed to the industry.
Having said that...
My reference speakers, for years, were Vandersteens. My local audio shop was doing a demo of Vandersteen's "Quattro" speaker, which costs more than twice as much as my speakers did.
I listened to them... and basically everything I didn't like about my own Vandersteens was present in the Quattro. In particular, they weren't dynamic and their lack of dynamics made every recording sound "muted." They might be nice if all you listen to is smooth jazz, but that's not me.
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I've been studying loudspeaker phase for over a decade now, and since Vandersteen's speakers are defined by their phase response, I was eager to bounce some ideas off of him. In particular, I wanted to talk about how it's possible to achieve excellent phase response by manipulating the slope of crossover filters and using physical driver offset to compensate for the delay that's introduce by higher order filters.
When I said this to Vandersteen, all I got back was a blank stare.
So I tried to dumb it down a little... then soon realized the dude really doesn't understand that there's more than one way to flatten phase response.
I agree with Vandersteen - phase is important - but I was floored that he seemed to be completely unaware that there are other ways of flattening phase than just "use first order filters for every driver."
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John Dunlavy followed a similar design philosophy, but seemed to have a better grasp on crossover design. He used to get into flame wars about this stuff on rec.audio back before the World Wide Web even existed.
The Quatro has a sensitivity of 83dB and it's output limited by it's tweeter, which can handle 50 watts:
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So even if there's zero power compression, the max it can hit is about 100dB.
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1) drivers with low sensitivity
2) first order crossovers
3) relatively low power handling
IE, if you're going to commit to first order crossover filters, you might consider using a waveguide to increase the output on-axis. Even a small/shallow waveguide would increase the on-axis output by about 6db or so, and that makes a world of difference, dynamically.
I tend to agree on principle. Sometimes the grille can make a useful difference, especially at 4kHz and above.If you are going to pan the VLR Wood speakers, you should at least be testing of the speakers as designed to be used, with the grilles in place. As others have noted, the grilles on these speakers are not like those on most other bookshelf speakers, for which the grille is negligible to performance. The VLR (Wood and CT) have solid MDF front panels behind the black fabric grille cloth with cutouts for the bass drivers that are designed to acoustically couple with the cabinets.
I have the VLR CT version and find their listening performance much better than the review here would suggest. Of course, I use them with their grilles attached. I have one other coaxial system, the KEF LS50 wireless II (and had the Wireless I before) as well as other bookshelf systems of similar value (Amphion Argon 3s) and the Vandersteens compare well to both. I use mine on IsoAcoustics stands which may reduce some of the bass extension the speaker may have when placed against a wall and inside a bookshelf as Vandersteen recommends, but they are placed close to a wall and I use a subwoofer with these (and all the other standmounts).
I suggest that if you are going to post this review that you repeat the testing with the speakers assembled with the grilles attached. If they fail your standards and compare poorly, so be it. But fairness requires testing the product as it is designed, and not stripped of parts essential to the design, even if that was not understood and intended.