TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[AdamG]

Let’s not get too off track and topic with this debate about the Harman Curve and related study results. Maybe consider starting a new thread where you can discuss this at length and your leisure. So please try to remain focused on the product review and the associated results.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance.

 

[Robbo99999]

This talk about the Harman Curve and what people think about headphones. How does Harman know that the FR they tested those headphones on is the one that the test subjects liked? That when our ear canals are so different. Different in this case in the way that FR between the same headphones and two different people can differ by 10 dB in FR. So what, how to interpret those results?

Unless Harman knows the FR, the individual FR, of those listening to the headphones, how can they draw the conclusions they do?

I think I see what you're asking. You're right that you can't totally predict what frequency response will be received at the eardrum of each individual that uses any headphone or IEM, but the Harman research isn't really concerned with that directly. Instead they took a dummy head & ear canal that hopefully represented a fairly average persons ear & head, and then they did their measurements to create the Target Curve on that dummy and it was the same one that they measured the headphones & IEM's on. They then did the bass & treble tone control experiments with their participants to finetune that Target Curve to preference, which results in the Harman Headphone & IEM Target Curves that we know of today. It by no means signifies that this is the frequency response you get at your own eardrum, but it is an attempt to create an "average" frequency response target that is pleasing to the most amount of people, with of course the fundamentals of it trying to be designed around some "average anatomy". So you're right that they don't know what frequency response you're getting at your own ear, but they've tried to come up with something that should sound pleasing and actually be the most accurate to the most people. It's a generalisation & an approximation....which is why I was saying that the future of headphones is DSP based on our own individual HRTF's - which is what will make headphones sound like speakers (and any arrangement & number of channels you like) - currently this is possible with Smyth Realizer and supposedly also The Impulcifier Project although the latter has a few limitations re no head tracking (last time I checked). So yes, Harman don't know what your frequency response is gonna be at your own eardrum, but they do know that they've created a Target Curve that is likely to be the best single target curve that will appeal to you the most - if you had to narrow it down to one target curve fitting everyone.

 

[Robbo99999]

Let’s not get too off track and topic with this debate about the Harman Curve and related study results. Maybe consider starting a new thread where you can discuss this at length and your leisure. So please try to remain focused on the product review and the associated results.

Thank you for your understanding and assistance.

Sorry, yes, it was kinda inevitable that this discussion of Harman Curve would come up with this particular product as it hugs Harman Curve so well & at a bargain price, so it's garnered much interest & so brought out all the Harman Curve lovers & haters along with many many views - as it should do because it seems like quite a unique & good value product. So there is a fair amount of relevance of talk of Harman Curve theory when associated with this particular product - as it totally (almost) conforms to it as it's desired target. There is a thread already on the merits (or not) of the Harman Curve, so I suppose it might be prudent to continue discussion (as you say) there.
There's one here:

Harman preference curve for headphones - am I the only one that doesn't like this curve?

Hi all With some incredible help from fellow forum members here (@pkane , @Robbo99999 , @dasdoing ) I've been able EQ my headphones to the Harman preference curve. I started with my own favourite Focal Elegia and just today I've EQ'd my friends Aeon 2 Closed and HD800-S , all using oratory1990...

www.audiosciencereview.com

one here:

Poll: Do you like Harman's target curve for headphones bass response?

With the 770 I don't. It would have issues with most targets beucase It has a peak at 6kHz. EQ presets cut that frequency to look good on paper but it doesn't work as well in real life listening.

www.audiosciencereview.com

And there's more.
Most of the Harman threads are "anti-Harman" in terms of their opening post as people don't tend to create a million threads saying "Harman Curve is great & I love it" (lol) when this whole site has it's headphone reviews based around Harman Targets as a benchmark for headphones & IEM's - as that's a current given for the philosophy of our site here - we generally understand the Harman Headphone Targets to be the best current targets that we have.

 

[Jeromeof]

While everyone will have their own preferences - it seems to me like IEM's need a recommended 'curve' and the Harman curve is probably the most reasonable current - those who don't like it can EQ easily from it. I don't see the problem - in my opinion - having a normalised curve is ideal as I can then apply my preferred tweaks to that standard.

 

[amirm]

There is a HUGE benefit to a target curve beyond predicting preference. It helps solve the circle of confusion that exists all around where you never know how the music is tonally balanced, and what someone talks about when it comes to tonality. If we all use the same target, massive amount of this confusion is removed. This was the core to my suggestion for people to try this headphone. Not that everyone will like it but that we all get calibrated to certain tonality.

We have this in video where everything from source to playback is calibrated to the same levels and colors. That calibration may be limited but assures that we get darn close to what was intended when video was captured. Audio lacks this and is a big problem.

The more companies produce transducers that conform to the same target, the farther ahead we get in high fidelity sound reproduction.

 

[amirm]

Another key point about IEMs: everything I talk about and the research relies on proper seal. If you lose that seal, bass response drops and tonality heavily shifts to high frequencies. You must assure complete seal or you will think high frequencies are accentuated. This is like a seesaw. Remove the bass and balance is completely changed.

 

[amirm]

Sorry, yes, it was kinda inevitable that this discussion of Harman Curve would come up with this particular product as it hugs Harman Curve so well & at a bargain price, so it's garnered much interest & so brought out all the Harman Curve lovers & haters along with many many views - as it should do because it seems like quite a unique & good value product.

Review threads are not about deep dives into topics where posts go on for pages. Make your point in a paragraph or two and it can be here. Otherwise, it should go to a dedicated thread. If folks don't read them there, then they are annoyed to find them here as well.

 

[Robbo99999]

Review threads are not about deep dives into topics where posts go on for pages. Make your point in a paragraph or two and it can be here. Otherwise, it should go to a dedicated thread. If folks don't read them there, then they are annoyed to find them here as well.

(Yep, I'm not the one challenging the validity of the Harman Headphone Curve)

 

[asrUser]

I’ve added the following clarification to my post on page 34,

EDIT - I’ve been doing further listening and the mention of listening at -22db above needs further clarification, the tracks I was using above are unusually quiet (nils frahm/loscil etc) and on further listening to “an average/normal“ track list I am now listening at -28db to -30db so perhaps not as hard to drive the Zero as I initially thought, they do need more volume than my 7hz timeless/Dunu vulkan though, just not as much as I stated above - apologies for the confusion.

How would you compare 7Hz Timeless vs Zero if both volumes are adjusted? Of course the Timeless will sound better when it plays louder.

I too, like many here at ASR, was intrigued by such an enthusiastic review of these headphones, and was ready to give my € 50 to Amazon.
Unfortunately the headphones were only available when sold and shipped by shenzenaudio, and I vowed not to buy anything from Shenzhenaudio after all the problems with customer service.
So, now taken by the monkey, I ordered the 7hz Salnotes zero, which someone talked about in the thread. I hope they are at least funny.

I'm looking forward to the comparison as the Salnotes are planar IEMs. Please keep us updated.

 

[CedarX]

There is a HUGE benefit to a target curve beyond predicting preference. It helps solve the circle of confusion that exists all around where you never know how the music is tonally balanced, and what someone talks about when it comes to tonality. If we all use the same target, massive amount of this confusion is removed. This was the core to my suggestion for people to try this headphone. Not that everyone will like it but that we all get calibrated to certain tonality.

We have this in video where everything from source to playback is calibrated to the same levels and colors. That calibration may be limited but assures that we get darn close to what was intended when video was captured. Audio lacks this and is a big problem.

The more companies produce transducers that conform to the same target, the farther ahead we get in high fidelity sound reproduction.

Absolutely agree with this !!! I am no “golden ears” by any mean, and my typical experience comparing two HPs or IEMs is: I may hear differences, but I can’t tell which one is better… and can’t even decide which one I prefer—I can get “used to” either one and find my tracks enjoyable on either one, just in a different way. The irritating opposite may be true: I prefer this one HP/IEM over that one, but can’t tell why… Oh and EQ’ing “by ear” really means random EQ in my case.
The TruthEar Zero is an inexpensive way to get something close to “correct FR / preferred by most”, nothing more, but so important!

 

[fivecolors]

Brilliant!
I bought iems for almost $1k a few years ago and even with eq wont match this.

@amirm one of the criticisms of this iem is that although tonally correct, it misses out on "detail retrieval/resolution" compated to more expensive iems. Is there any truth to this?

How do you know they won't match this till you actually listen to them?

 

[openbaffle3278]

The tonality is right for sure. Impressive. I got a good fit with the Medium tips. I may play around with the Final Audio 'E' tips, which fit me pretty well. For $50 USD wow.

 

[MZKM]

I bought these and the 7Hz Zero. Their FR is similar (no clue on distortion or sensitivity differences), and for <1/2 the price of the already cheap $50 TruthEar, it’ll be an interesting comparison.

 

[AudioJester]

How do you know they won't match this till you actually listen to them?

Dude, we are talking about the frequency response and tracking the preferred curve.
Audibility is a different ball game, if you are following the thread will have other inputs - tip size and type, my ear anatomy, my biases etc.
If all you want is to compare listening, sorry cant help with that. I have been a member of headfi for almost 20 yrs, you will find your answers there.....

 

[posvibes]

I think what is more interesting is if you want to get the idea of the Harman curve into the public space and away form the usual cognoscenti this might be a great way of doing it and establishing a standard a "norm" with a brand name so that it becomes something less abstract. I remember visiting Cebit in Hannover the most prestigious Computer and Technology show in Europe way back when and visiting small stands that were developing products around a thing called "Bluetooth", who knew?

Looking at pictures of the packaging of the IEM's they have a FR Graph as part of the packaging materials, that's quite something. Does anybody know if they mention "Harman Curve" in the blurb or in the user manuals?

They will be keeping a close eye on the Amazon reviews and how long before HP companies will be mentioning Harman Curve tuned comparable or offering it as an EQ preset?

 

[Martin Takamine]

TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM sound good plugged into my Sony CD Walkman as well as my desktop setup.

 

[odyo]

I have this harman tuned crinacle zex pro and it sounds horrible.

 

[doc2c]

I think what is more interesting is if you want to get the idea of the Harman curve into the public space and away form the usual cognoscenti this might be a great way of doing it and establishing a standard a "norm" with a brand name so that it becomes something less abstract. I remember visiting Cebit in Hannover the most prestigious Computer and Technology show in Europe way back when and visiting small stands that were developing products around a thing called "Bluetooth", who knew?

Looking at pictures of the packaging of the IEM's they have a FR Graph as part of the packaging materials, that's quite something. Does anybody know if they mention "Harman Curve" in the blurb or in the user manuals?

They will be keeping a close eye on the Amazon reviews and how long before HP companies will be mentioning Harman Curve tuned comparable or offering it as an EQ preset?

I'm very convinced ASR has had a major impact on audio companies, chi-fi especially, disclosing there tuning curve and paying attention to how their gear measures (SINAD etc)

It's good when we have a watchdog keeping the industry in check. A good analogy to ASR is Gamers Nexus for PC components (PC cases especially) and Digital Foundry for game performance #stutterstruggle
Steve from GN is ruthlessly honest like Amir. He tears companies apart when they mess up (Newegg, NZXT, Gigabyte, Zalman...) and more often than not they end up changing their shady practices.
Even better, companies send samples to him for input before they release their product to the public. Over the past couple.of years, PC cases have gone from "cool" looking glass hotboxes to something that won't choke your components into submission, owing much to Steve's testing.
I think Amir has or is approaching this level influence in the audio world. And this industry needs it more than the PC world. Thank you @amirm for your services to the consumers

 

[staticV3]

I have this harman tuned crinacle zex pro

eh, hardly harman tuned

and it sounds horrible.

Agreed (I have it too). 3k and up is a mess.

 

[GaryH]

I have this harman tuned crinacle zex pro and it sounds horrible.

Not Harman tuning:

It's below target by 3-4 dB over a broadband range (more audible than narrowband) from 1 to ~6 kHz (even more than the Truthear Zero's excess there), and around where our ears are most sensitive as shown by the equal loudness contours.