TRUTHEAR x Crinacle Zero IEM Review

[Garrincha]

Well, air is a term to describe frequency response, so on that one it's quite agreed upon, speed may be a flawed term but it's still true that two headphone with the same frequency response (to a degree of tolerance or readability) can have different impulse response, how it translate subjectively is where there are grey zone. Detail is quite simple, it means that you hear more low level far in the mix elements on headphone A than headphone B. It is true that some headphones will let you hear things that you will miss with others like reverb tails, or even mumbling far away from a microphones or all sort of things that are on the recording but not audible on some, audible on others. Does it strictly means more highs, maybe, maybe not.

Thanks, I know what detail means, the question is, if it is explicable just by FR, I would claim yes, just elevated treble.

 

[julian_hughes]

....

However, if you take two identical models of headphones and you actually measure those units and EQ them to same curve throughout the frequency range then they will sound the same...

This I believe!

 

[Helicopter]

Impressive. I ordered a pair. I have always had bad luck with IEMs fitting my ears. Maybe I'll take them to my audiologist friend and see if she can tell me which tips to use.

 

[RHO]

My questions and reserves are on the presentation of the Harman curve as an objective measure of intrinsec quality, which is untrue : it's a measure of statistic preference.

Oh, I totally agree. But it's a very good reference, which many people actually like. But certainly not all. I think I experience it the same way Andrew (Headphones.com) does. For me the Harman IE sounds a bit "shouty"(too much ear-gain). I don't mind the amount of bass. The OE reference agrees with my tastes more.

 

[julian_hughes]

If you go to the site https://www.hypethesonics.com/iemdbc/, choose an IEM and click on "J" below the graph, it shows the impulse response measurements. They seems to more or less the same for all IEMs, independent of driver type or figuration. I think different "speed" and "thump" is just a myth.

I didn't look but I'm happy to accept that is the fact. But I don't think I was talking about impulse response. BA and dynamic drivers move air in different ways, and imo (and I'm not off the wall here) they do not sound identical and I'm not sure if impulse response would be the way to measure or describe the differences. I am no measurement expert or physicist, so can anyone else suggest, based on the obvious mechanical differences, what would be a reasonable way to describe or measure any sonic differences arising from this unambiguous difference?

 

[USER]

I wrote an article about the Harman Target Curve in Acoustics Today:

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer?​

The Perception and Measurement of Headphone Sound Quality- What Do Listeners Prefer? - Sean E. Olive

acousticstoday.org

I doesn't really deal with the IEM Target but much of the same rationale and testing methodology was used for both.

Thank you so much for this, Sean.

My favorite segment: "For example, 69% of the males in the study are members of Class 1 (Harman Target Lovers)..."

All kidding aside, there is so much valuable information here. Even the open questions are insightful, pointing toward where to go.

I am seeing more and more personal targets on review sites/videos lately and I hope this will help wrangle things up in a helpful matter with people thinking better about adjusted curves for personal preferences and finding consensus around on your findings. This is a must read for any reviewer and we should hold him/her accountable for exercising due diligence.

 

[Robbo99999]

Headfi and Headphone measure the phones they test, too, even if they don't publish complete set of measurments.
My questions and reserves are on the presentation of the Harman curve as an objective measure of intrinsec quality, which is untrue : it's a measure of statistic preference. In his paper published above in this thread, Sean Olive himself, who is one of the promoter of the Harman curve, doesn't rule out this protocol could present some cultural and generational biases.

I'm not the only one who questions the universality of the Harman curve as a supposed benchmark for tonal quality of headphones. Many testers, sound professionals and music lovers have the same questions. As a sum up ( a liitle too general as everysum up) , I would say Harman curve is quite OK for people who listen primalerly to rock/pop/hip hop and "artificially" recorded music (no prejudice or dismissing towards these musical genres, I like them and I was even involved in an mateur rock band in my teenage), but for people who listen mainly to classical or acoustical musics (which is my case now), I'm not sure Harman curve is the right and only way to follow.

Maybe the effect of a bias between Old Europe one side and America and young people in general on the other side ?
We listen with our brain, our culture, our inherated tastes and preferences, not thru unquestionnable tonality curves. This is an objective and scientific fact too.

As for the other objective and unquestionnable measurements, the Truthear is definitely superb for low distorsion and average but fine enough for sensibility.
It's without a doubt a good cheap IEM, but not so universal nor so neutral. Amir has gone a little too far in his enthusiam for this model.

What else can I say ?

Important EDIT: I forgot I was in the IEM Section! This post is applicable to over ear headphones only, sorry for the confusion - don't use my EQ listed on your IEM's!

If you're after "true neutrality" then it's plausible to say the 2013 Harman Curve is the true neutral curve, as that is a direct translation of the slope of the Harman Speaker Curve applied to a measurement at the eardrum of a dummy head of an in room flat EQ'd measuring speaker system. So essentially it's replicating what Harman Curve Speakers sound like in Harman's Listening Room to the dummy head. It has less bass than the 2018 Harman Curve that is used here on ASR & by Oratory, etc, it also has slightly less treble and a peak in the mids is emphasised a little. Following are all the different Harman Curves shown, and the blue one (being the 2013 Harman Curve) is the one that is technically the most neutral......the orange one is the 2018 Harman Curve:

If you want to convert your 2018 Harman EQ into a 2013 Harman EQ you can use the following filters I created (which can be imported into Equaliser APO or just inputted manually into whatever EQ Software you use), find attached EqualiserAPO file.
Low Shelf 1000 Hz Gain -0.5 dB Q 0.707
Low Shelf 160 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 0.707
Peak Filter 30 Hz Gain -0.7 dB Q 2
High Shelf 3350 Hz Gain -1.6 dB Q 0.707
Peak Filter 2800 Hz Gain 1.6 dB Q 2

EDIT: I prefer the 2018 Harman Curve though which is the one you see here on ASR and in use by Oratory, etc......occasionally I go through phases of using the Harman 2013 Curve though.

Important EDIT: I forgot I was in the IEM Section! This post is applicable to over ear headphones only, sorry for the confusion - don't use my EQ listed on your IEM's!

 

[GaryH]

My attitude about things that are 'mostly' right is that I can use them more often without eq... picking up one of these, it will only be used without (ie. iPhone). My daily drivers, KSE-1200s, are only used on a laptop w/ Roon and PEQ - it's an absolute must to EQ these.

AFA what Resolve hears, it's pretty evident his preferences are more toward IEF neutral than Harman (not only based on this but what he's said about other things), so you have to process his findings through that filter.

He keeps mentioning ear anatomy, but in general I imagine younger people will find Harman a bit strident as 1) it averages in an older demographic with a tinge of reduction in the higher end of the frequency spectrum and 2) they probably listen at higher volume, and fletcher-munson dictates that bass and treble are apparently louder (ie. why he sees bass as being too much as well).

I'm 46 and tend to listen at no more than 80 db or so... I've been to a couple Canjams and couldn't believe how loud most of the rigs were. Harman sounds pretty on-point to me, fwiw, but I have a feeling 25 yo me wouldn't feel the same. And disagree about the warmth region needing a boost, I've played with that and ultimately find I want a bit more relative low-bass otherwise it seems clarity takes a back seat.

I was talking about the Truthear's response being a bit shouty (excess 1-3 kHz) and lacking a bit of warmth (deficient 125-225 Hz), not the Harman target:

 

[Jimbob54]

I was talking about the Truthear's response being a bit shouty (excess 1-3 kHz) and lacking a bit of warmth (deficient 125-225 Hz), not the Harman target:

View attachment 231133

Some pretty exacting standards you have there....

 

[GaryH]

Some pretty exacting standards you have there....

1: The squashed vertical scale on Crinacle's graphs makes everything look better than it is.

2:

the Truthear is a bit over target bettween 1 and ~3 kHz, which can make for a somewhat 'shouty' sound, and can be particularly bothersome compared to inaccuracies in other parts of the frequency response. And this shoutiness is just what @Resolve heard with them, likely also exacerbated by the slight lack of energy between 125 and ~225 Hz ('warmth'), and possibly the lacking sub-bass too

 

[spartaman64]

1: The squashed vertical scale on Crinacle's graphs makes everything look better than it is.

2:

you can also look at amir's measurements. harman inear target in general is shouty to resolve.

 

[Robbo99999]

I was talking about the Truthear's response being a bit shouty (excess 1-3 kHz) and lacking a bit of warmth (deficient 125-225 Hz), not the Harman target:

View attachment 231133

I suppose that's worth keeping in mind when you come to listen to the Truthear X Crinacle, but it's not far off and it's an easy EQ fix to bring that area down a little if you want to. I'm expecting these to sound excellent based on the measurements, with the one unknown being is that I have not really ever experienced IEM's, so I don't know how well the Harman IEM Target will translate to myself - the over ear Harman Target works great on me, so I'm expecting the same of the Harman IEM Target, but I'll have to see. I'm not really expecting to need to use EQ on these.

 

[GaryH]

I suppose that's worth keeping in mind when you come to listen to the Truthear X Crinacle, but it's not far off and it's an easy EQ fix to bring that area down a little if you want to. I'm expecting these to sound excellent based on the measurements, with the one unknown being is that I have not really ever experienced IEM's, so I don't know how well the Harman IEM Target will translate to myself - the over ear Harman Target works great on me, so I'm expecting the same of the Harman IEM Target, but I'll have to see. I'm not really expecting to need to use EQ on these.

Yeah, as I said before though because unlike headphones IEMs completely lack tactile bass, I find good sub-bass response can somewhat compensate for that, but EQing up the Truthear's sub-bass to Harman levels will increase distortion where it's at its highest (still might not be audible though).

 

[USER]

I was talking about the Truthear's response being a bit shouty (excess 1-3 kHz) and lacking a bit of warmth (deficient 125-225 Hz), not the Harman target:

View attachment 231133

I find this fascinating because upon quick sight I just don't see how a 1dB difference would affect the sound so much. I'm not saying I don't believe you. We all know that headphone measurement is not precise and we seem to think more broadly about their frequency response as opposed to that of speakers--again because we have to.

Now that it seems that we will be getting more headphones and IEMs that follow targets more strictly I am looking forward to folks thinking more about smaller differences. Of course there are plenty of other variables that complicate this, but I am very much looking forward to other's opinions including my own when my pair arrives on Saturday.

 

[Kevinfc]

Seem like a great value, nice

 

[id.ray]

If i get these and only have a THX onyx will i run into problems or just wont be able to crank it?
Coming from Senheiser 599 open backs

 

[GaryH]

I find this fascinating because upon quick sight I just don't see how a 1dB difference would affect the sound so much. I'm not saying I don't believe you. We all know that headphone measurement is not precise and we seem to think more broadly about their frequency response as opposed to that of speakers--again because we have to.

Now that it seems that we will be getting more headphones and IEMs that follow targets more strictly I am looking forward to folks thinking more about smaller differences. Of course there are plenty of other variables that complicate this, but I am very much looking forward to other's opinions including my own when my pair arrives on Saturday.

Note I have not heard them, but I'm going off previous experience in which even small excess in that region can result in a bit of a 'shouty' sound (especially combined with again even small deficiency in upper bass 'warmth'), and reports from others like Resolve on hearing the Truthear. The frequencies in that 'shouty' region are around those our ears are most sensitive to according to the equal loudness contours, so this may have something to do with it.

 

[MayaTlab]

I find this fascinating because upon quick sight I just don't see how a 1dB difference would affect the sound so much. I'm not saying I don't believe you. We all know that headphone measurement is not precise and we seem to think more broadly about their frequency response as opposed to that of speakers--again because we have to.

I wouldn't even bother analysing IEM measurements to such a precise degree given that the degree of uncertainty arising from comparing 711 and 5128 graphs is already quite a good deal more important than that, in addition to the very few in-situ measurements I've seen for IEMs vs couplers.

That said, 1dB across a large bandwidth is probably noticeable (much less so across narrow bandwidths).

 

[Garrincha]

I didn't look but I'm happy to accept that is the fact. But I don't think I was talking about impulse response. BA and dynamic drivers move air in different ways, and imo (and I'm not off the wall here) they do not sound identical and I'm not sure if impulse response would be the way to measure or describe the differences. I am no measurement expert or physicist, so can anyone else suggest, based on the obvious mechanical differences, what would be a reasonable way to describe or measure any sonic differences arising from this unambiguous difference?

Do you even read what you are writing? So you acknowledge the fact that all driver types (mabe excluding true electrostatics) have similar impulse responses. Combined with assuming two IEMs having identical FR, there is no possible origin of different sound for e.g. BA or DD. If e.g. one IEM has 6BAs and one a single DD and both have the same frequency response, they will sound the same.

 

[solderdude]

If i get these and only have a THX onyx will i run into problems or just wont be able to crank it?
Coming from Senheiser 599 open backs

It is 116dB/V so the mentioned amp will give you 119dB SPL (in the mids) and 127dB SPL in the bass.
So yeah... you can cranck it no problem