Do you think a Sinad over 99dB will be responsible of that kind of better sound? Let me doubt it.
I think you need to do a double blind test first with leveled gain, etc.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Do you think a Sinad over 99dB will be responsible of that kind of better sound? Let me doubt it.
I think you need to do a double blind test first with leveled gain, etc.
Mike, I was surprised too. I started with one amp then I bought 2 more. Note the LA90 is a class AB amp. The ATI is class D.
There were many times in the past where I changed things around for subtle changes. Those would of have been really hard to tell the difference in a blindfold test. This is a night and day difference, not subtle at all. I would easily be able to tell.
It is not uncommon to hear a "not subtle at all" difference - even when this doesn't exist in the sound - if listening sighted.
No-one is immune.
I just confirmed directly with Topping that in Bridged mode you need to use speakers with NOMINAL LOAD OF => 8 OHMS. That is great news since most speakers are rated at nominal 8 ohms. I felt the need to check with them since their poor wording online may lead one to think you need a speaker that at any given frequency NEVER dips below 8 ohms as opposed to one that is simply is rated at a nominal 8 ohms.
I hear you. That is what I understood from your earlier reply. Number one a persons hearing threshold as Amirm always says is -115db not -99db.
Secondly adding many noises based frequencies below 99db interacts and effects other frequencies in the musical bandwidth and ones perception of the tonal balance.
Also think of it this way. Instead of the drivers only needing to duplicate the actual music they now AT THE SAME TIME need to try and duplicate many superfluous tones. Do you not think their job becomes harder and it effect how clean they can reproduce just the music? It is like you are asked to do 10 things at a time as opposed to 1.
I always found well made cables to have only subtle differences at best. This would be hard to pass a double blind test.
It is a completely different story from comparing one amp that is clean down to -120 db to one that adds superfluous noises under -99db. When you add alot of noises under -99db it requires the drivers try and reproduce the music together with all these noises simultaneously. There is a 21db of differences of noise. It can shift the tonal balance and makes the drivers work harder trying to reproduce all those frequncies.
115dB is the absolute limit under perfect listening conditions, and with perfect hearing. Very few people (apart some teenagers and dogs) have perfect hearing. Almost no-one listens in a perfect (read quiet) environment. 30dB noise in the room would be pretty quiet, but would swamp -115dB of Sinad.
Then your speakers have WAY more distortion.
So your claim of being able to hear the difference between -99dB an -120dB is unlikely - and will be subject to some questions.
Not to say you're definitely not hearing anything real - but in the absense of controlled testing, the statement cannot be taken as anything that means anything to anyone other than yourself.
Where, in an anechoic chamber with 0 dB SPL background noise?
All very good points. It simply could be that superfluous noise under -99db interacts with music based frequencies and corrupts it.
I can tell you that for me it is a night and day difference.
Yes, but that difference can be something as simply as a gain difference... caused by electrical mismatch conditions (impedance / sensitivity) between pre (or DAC) and power amp. As an example.
Like vikings looking at the lightning and thinking it was the hammer of Thor. "For me it's that"
If you level the gains ... Maybe is a surprise for you
That is not how it works. Inaudible noise and distortion doesn't magically "corrupt" music such that it becomes audible.
They sound so different. One (ATI) is the lightning speed with noise in between the music and the other (LA90) is like a smooth blanket of silk. Mike, they do not sound anything alike! Later I will recalibrate the system with the new amps in the system.
It was not just me that heard this but almost every reviewer. You can also kind of understand it from the graphs on this site. The ATI has a massive amount of spikes in almost every frequency while the LA90 has almost non.
Sokel
Master Contributor
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2021
- Messages
- 6,038
- Likes
- 6,058
Do the following test,results may be surprising.
(You can post the results too in the following thread if you want)
Klippel distortion tests (two-tone 70hz 800hz tests). Where do you fit, as compared to +8680 participants?
My recent thread showed that we have members with a range of hearing sensitivity. Many can easily hear a difference, but some could not. I am now curious about ASR members hearing sensitivity as compared to larger pool of participants (over 8680 participants for this particular test). I note...
www.audiosciencereview.com
What spikes are you referring to, are they the ones shown in the FFT for the 5 W test?
ATI AT522NC Stereo Amplifier Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the ATI AT522NC Stereo power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The 522NC costs US $2,195 but I see it on Amazon for US $1,995. The AT522NC is part of a series which starts with 2 channels of class D amplification and goes up to 4...
www.audiosciencereview.com
If that's the one, the worse spike is at below -100 dB level at 3,000 Hz. That is not that audible even if you room is very quiet. I think if you and the other listeners could hear the difference between the two amps so easily you need to find another reason. I would guess most likely the way they were compared, wiring, level matching, source contents etc etc...
Mike SINAD is an important measure since it compares an average ratio of level to total noise(THD+Noise).What spikes are you referring to, are they the ones shown in the FFT for the 5 W test?
ATI AT522NC Stereo Amplifier Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the ATI AT522NC Stereo power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The 522NC costs US $2,195 but I see it on Amazon for US $1,995. The AT522NC is part of a series which starts with 2 channels of class D amplification and goes up to 4...
If that's the one, the worse spike is at below -100 dB level at 3,000 Hz. That is not that audible even if you room is very quiet. I think if you and the other listeners could hear the difference between the two amps so easily you need to find another reason. I would guess most likely the way they were compared, wiring, level matching, source contents etc etc...
Yes and put the same graph of the LA990 next to it and you will see what I mean.What spikes are you referring to, are they the ones shown in the FFT for the 5 W test?
ATI AT522NC Stereo Amplifier Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the ATI AT522NC Stereo power amplifier. It is on kind loan from a member. The 522NC costs US $2,195 but I see it on Amazon for US $1,995. The AT522NC is part of a series which starts with 2 channels of class D amplification and goes up to 4...
If that's the one, the worse spike is at below -100 dB level at 3,000 Hz. That is not that audible even if you room is very quiet. I think if you and the other listeners could hear the difference between the two amps so easily you need to find another reason. I would guess most likely the way they were compared, wiring, level matching, source contents etc etc...
I knew and I did compare the two. The point is, the ATI's THD is already below the threshold of audibility. You need another reason to explain why you heard such an obvious difference, or it could just be Placebo, but most likely its the way to set up the comparison, that may not be an apples to apples one.
Similar threads
- Poll
