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Dan Clark Expanse Headphone Review

Rate this headphone:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 10 2.7%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 12 3.3%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 65 17.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 281 76.4%

  • Total voters
    368

coptician

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@Dan Clark
I know how difficult this question can be to answer, since it's comparing two babies:

Voce vs Expanse - what are in your opinion the differences between them? What does one do better than the other?

I'll eschew from asking which you prefer, just want to know where they differ.

Thanks! :D
 

DarginMahkum

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Hi everyone!

If I see technical questions in the thread I'll update this post with responses so it's easy for folk to find.

Cheers,

Dan
Hi Dan. What is the reason for the imperdance jump to 36 ohms around 200Hz? Is it a deliberate impedance change with a passive circuit to lift the bass? As far as I know AMTS is only used to tune mids up.
 

poxymoron

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This headphone has a ridiculous price… audio jewelery. Give a strong professional audio development company and they can develope good spec product for $250,000- $400,00 0 investment … mainly salaries for engineers
$250,000- $400,000? So let's say $325,000. What's that? Two or three engineers for 12 months and then whatever funds are left over for costs? Can't see it myself. They'd all be doing it if it was that easy.
 

frix

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Looking at Dan's history I am really impressed what he achieved in all those years. Started out as a hobbyist and is now running a company that builds world class headpones packed with innovations.
Too bad most of those headphones are way out of what I am willing to spend.
 

solderdude

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Hi Dan. What is the reason for the imperdance jump to 36 ohms around 200Hz? Is it a deliberate impedance change with a passive circuit to lift the bass? As far as I know AMTS is only used to tune mids up.

I don't think he will be spilling the beans. I also don't think it will be a filter. That would require a HUGE value and very low resistance inductor so is highly unlikely.
The 20ohm impedance also does not suggest a circuit is used to boost the lows. In fact such a filter could only be used to lower the bass response.
Such an inductor would also be very close to a strong magnetic field.

My guess is it is something acoustical. It is not a coincidence the 'intenitional hump' which lots of headphones have b.t.w. has something to do with a resonance at that frequency.
@Dan Clark knows but likely isn't going to go in details.
 

FrantzM

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You know, I'm all for "good value" and I tout that many a time here on ASR, but when you have a breakthrough product that matches the Harman Curve like that at stock throughout the frequency range, and especially in the bass given it's an open-backed headphone then you're in unprecedented water, not to mention the fact that the frequency response is smooth without any high Q fine grass variations that is seen in almost every planar headphone that isn't the previously released closed back Dan Clark Stealth headphone. I think the high Q fine grass variations normally seen in planars is detrimental to overall resolution, which is why I prefer dynamic driver headphones.....but that's not seen in this headphone! (that last sentence is a theory of mine based on my experience, but it's not a fact, not enough evidence for it, but it's my current working theory). So yes, I think a lot of research went into this headphone and the execution is IMPECCABLE, and I mean that sincerely judging from the measurements.....and it's also unique given what I've said re the bass compliance & open backed headphones, so it's an aspirational product that is treading new ground, so I think the massive price is actually a reflection of what it delivers on the objective measurement front - so I think it's ok to command a crazy price! Whether or not when you listen with this headphone makes you think "wow this is worth 4K" is a whole other matter, and there's unknown variables re headphones & anatomy interaction that means that you wouldn't necessarily have a "wow moment" listening with this headphone......but the measurements show that you have the best chance for the best experience!
Well said.
 
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JanesJr1

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Got it but many headphones have bumps in their frequency response and no meta-material and no passive electronics. Is it that important? headphone tuning is still all about physics, there is not only one way to get there. I think the point is that's part of the signature sound, Mr Clark likes it.
I was responding to those who were attributing the upper-bass FR bump to meta materials. I don't personally care how it's done, but they seemed interested and I was at least passively curious.

My own interest has been EQ of DCA headphones, where, say, EQing them to the Harman/Oratory standard or to other proposed EQ models wipes out Dan's 60-180k bump. I've decided I mostly like the bump because it provides a little benefit and doesn't bleed up in the FR to create a bloom in the lower mids, at least on the Noire's. The low distortion planar tech of course helps, as does the fact that the real-world bump doesn't seem to go as quite as high in the FR range as Dan talks about in his videos. However, I find that wrapping an EQ around the bump is ticklish if i tinker with bass at the lower end or with the mid's, and can tip the headphones into a little bit of upper-bass/lower-mid bloom. Less EQ is more, I guess, with that bump in the middle.

Sorry for the digression. I've just spent a lot of time on EQing my Noires and RT's, and there are nuances to the bump, which is now on 3 different DCA models (but not the RT's).
 
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solderdude

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Excellent technical performance (very little wiggles/dips/peaks) between 20Hz and 6kHz (above that is measurement equipment/ear dependent).
Low distortion so no compression.
I would hope time domain is also O.K. but not seen any tests... as far as that's actually important... I suspect it will be O.K. enough.

Looks, weight, comfort, longevity and support all seem to be O.K. as well.
This deserves to be among the flagships and flagship pricing seems logical.

Now... if only there came some trickle down in the $ 1k price range or even $ 500.- then that would be even better.
 

MayaTlab

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Excellent technical performance (very little wiggles/dips/peaks) between 20Hz and 6kHz (above that is measurement equipment/ear dependent).
Low distortion so no compression.
I would hope time domain is also O.K. but not seen any tests... as far as that's actually important... I suspect it will be O.K. enough.

Looks, weight, comfort, longevity and support all seem to be O.K. as well.
This deserves to be among the flagships and flagship pricing seems logical.

The big question mark, particularly given the closed-ish front volume and DCA's past headphones, is always going to be : what's the actual response once it's on different people's heads - particularly in the bass region ?
That's the Stealth :
 

Ra1zel

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4 grand for a headphone is laughable regardless of how it measures. there is nothing in materials that justifies this cost!
I don't know a single technology whose price is justified by material costs.

Do people this days just assume R&D is free? And that stuff gets assembled by magic and not people who get paid?
 

solderdude

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The big question mark, particularly given the closed-ish front volume and DCA's past headphones, is always going to be : what's the actual response once it's on different people's heads - particularly in the bass region ?

As this is a semi-open headphone it will have some dependency on seal. The question is how much (not tested).
Maybe, someday I have time to visit Delft again and can measure these aspects (time domain and seal) myself when no one measured this.
Chances are subbass may be the only thing that suffers and bass itself may not.
 

Thomas_A

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The big question mark, particularly given the closed-ish front volume and DCA's past headphones, is always going to be : what's the actual response once it's on different people's heads - particularly in the bass region ?
That's the Stealth :
Agreed. With closed/semi-closed cans there will always differ between individuals.
DT150/100P, good accuracy of measurements to about 5 kHz with in-ear concha mics:
DT1150:100P 5 individuals.png

Average 5 individuals:
DT150:100P 5 average.png
 

Ra1zel

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Second thought: One first world problem is now solved: Finally a product worth actually saving money for :cool:
Another problem that this headphone solves is that it justifies using overpowered amps
 

PeteL

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I won't fault literal world class performance its price premium, but just imagine if you had that Norweigen 5 year legally enforced warranty, with the serivceable (and transportable!) design all at $2K.

You'd certaibly be paying a premium over the kilobucks market bracket, but you could actually use the damn things and at least amoritize the cost over a decade.
It's not my quote.
 

escalibur

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Amazing performance! Big congratz to the whole team for this achievement! Had a chance to quickly test Stealth Edition and they were good but something was missing. Maybe it was due that I'm not a huge fan of closed back headphones.

Can't wait to test these sometimes in the future though I don't think that I will ever be able to afford ones.

@Dan Clark Any chance of having a 'value model' with very similar curve?
 

MayaTlab

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Agreed. With closed/semi-closed cans there will always differ between individuals.

If they don't have a feedback mechanism :D.

But yep given that FR seems well established as the main component of subjective evaluations, it therefore means that headphones must be designed in a way so that they successfully manage to deliver a predictable and desirable target across a wide enough range of individuals, and at lower frequencies in 2022 we're starting to have the means to do so for all types of headphones, including earbuds.

And if they aren't, they should be heavily criticised for it. This is objectively a very poorly designed pair of headphones given how unpredictable the response is at lower frequencies, no matter how it measured on ear simulators or even if it managed to produce a decent response on a singular individual :

At the point we're at in terms of headphones reviews and measurements, I consider on-head response evaluation to be quite important to further the art of evaluating headphones.

The Expanse looks great from many angles and I hope that's it's designed well enough to deliver its greatness across as many individuals as possible.
 

solderdude

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Another problem that this headphone solves is that it justifies using overpowered amps

Yes, rather inefficient and low sensitivity indeed. Not suited for direct connection to a phone.
Still.. a phone that can deliver 1V can still reach 100dB SPL in the bass so one can reach 'long term listening SPL' but no loud or impressive levels.

Sensitivity = 97dB/V (at 400Hz)
Efficiency = 82dB/mW (at 400Hz)
At 100Hz efficiency is 3dB higher

To reach 110dB SPL peaks in the bass (is not equal to 110dBA average level noise !) you will need 3V = 0.4W (0.3W in 32 ohm equivalent, assuming current is available)
To reach 120dB SPL peaks (in the bass) you will need 10V = 4W (3W in 32 ohm equivalent, assuming current is available)
 
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