Can a DAC improve soundstage, depth, separation?

[tallbeardedone]

Let me preface by saying I'm a physics teacher and lifelong audiophile in my years of listening I have found speaker placement, toe-in, and rake are the single most important factors in nailing a 3-dimensional sound stage. When listening to a great recording I love the feeling of being INSIDE the room where it was recorded (or inside the headphones of the person who mixed it). Having said that, I am a constant tinkerer and find myself wondering just HOW can I improve the 3-dimensionality of my soundstage in my listening room.

So my question: is it possible for a DAC upgrade (from the internal DAC in my Hegel h390 to, say, a Topping d90se) to improve the DEPTH and WIDTH of my soundstage and the SEPARATION of instruments in three-dimensional sound space? I read all these subjective reviews (Goldensound and New Record Day's review of the Holo Audio May R2R DAC have nearly taken my money a hundred times) and they make me feel like I'm missing something if I don't upgrade my DAC. Is it all subjective crap? I can't get my hands on any DACs to do a blind test to I have to go with you guys here at Audio Science Review. HELP!

 

[Jimbob54]

I can't get my hands on any DACs to do a blind test

I'm pretty sure you can.

 

[fpitas]

Maybe if you wrap them in absorber and use them for room treatment?

Seriously...no. Probably you won't be able to tell any difference.

 

[GDK]

Short answer: No

Longer answer: Nooooo

 

[NiagaraPete]

Here we go again. NO!

 

[tallbeardedone]

Maybe if you wrap them in absorber and use them for room treatment?

Seriously...no. Probably you won't be able to tell any difference.

this one got me laughing. thanks.

 

[fpitas]

this one got me laughing. thanks.

Modern DACs are really good. It's definitely a mature science.

 

[tallbeardedone]

Here we go again. NO!

I take it you've answered this one before lol. Thanks for the input. Subjective reviews prey on my upgrade-itis sooo badly. I need this.

 

[tallbeardedone]

I'm pretty sure you can.

In the podunk town I'm in in New Zealand it's really difficult. The local hi-fi shop won't buy stock so I can listen and possibly return. It's draining.

 

[Grotti]

You are a physics teacher. So you should be able to interpret the data available here. And after all it should be possible for you to order a "well respected" DAC to do a blind and level matched test and return it, when you are not able to hear a difference. Which is very likely to happen...

Peace

 

[tallbeardedone]

You are a physics teacher. So you should be able to interpret the data available here. And after all it should be possible for you to order a "well respected" DAC to do a blind and level matched test and return it, when you are not able to hear a difference. Which is very likely to happen...

Peace

yeah not in New Zealand unfortunately. It's the shipping that's the snag.

 

[Peluvius]

Let me preface by saying I'm a physics teacher and lifelong audiophile in my years of listening I have found speaker placement, toe-in, and rake are the single most important factors in nailing a 3-dimensional sound stage. When listening to a great recording I love the feeling of being INSIDE the room where it was recorded (or inside the headphones of the person who mixed it). Having said that, I am a constant tinkerer and find myself wondering just HOW can I improve the 3-dimensionality of my soundstage in my listening room.

So my question: is it possible for a DAC upgrade (from the internal DAC in my Hegel h390 to, say, a Topping d90se) to improve the DEPTH and WIDTH of my soundstage and the SEPARATION of instruments in three-dimensional sound space? I read all these subjective reviews (Goldensound and New Record Day's review of the Holo Audio May R2R DAC have nearly taken my money a hundred times) and they make me feel like I'm missing something if I don't upgrade my DAC. Is it all subjective crap? I can't get my hands on any DACs to do a blind test to I have to go with you guys here at Audio Science Review. HELP!

Only if matched with crystal and silver ingrained electron passageways. The welcoming of the electron provides additional motivation and therefore encourages more compliant and accurate movement.....

But yea, no.

 

[Kevbaz]

I have tried all the below, and other than noise with IEMs or available power I can’t tell any difference.

RME adi 2
Apple dongle
Hidizs s8/9
Chord mojo

From my limited experience a solid headphone and EQ is important.
Kev

 

[tallbeardedone]

Only if matched with crystal and silver ingrained electron passageways. The welcoming of the electron provides additional motivation and therefore encourages more compliant and accurate movement.....

But yea, no.

I have tried all the below, and other than noise with IEMs or available power I can’t tell any difference.

RME adi 2
Apple dongle
Hidizs s8/9
Chord mojo

From my limited experience a solid headphone and EQ is important.
Kev

thanks dude

 

[Peluvius]

thanks dude

I specialise in the lowest form of wit, apologies. This is an excellent read:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

 

[KeithPhantom]

SEPARATION

Crosstalk, you need about 20 dB worth of that to call it 'different channels'. Good measuring DACs will give you from 90 to 110 dB in that measurement.

DEPTH and WIDTH

Frequency response, room, and interaction with your ears. Good DACs are pretty much flat from DC to Fs/2 (depending on the filter).

three-dimensional sound space?

Can be only truly done with a multichannel setup with overhead speakers.

 

[tallbeardedone]

Crosstalk, you need about 20 dB worth of that to call it 'different channels'. Good measuring DACs will give you from 90 to 110 dB in that measurement.


Frequency response, room, and interaction with your ears. Good DACs are pretty much flat from DC to Fs/2 (depending on the filter).


Can be only truly done with a multichannel setup with overhead speakers.

helpful and informative reply. thanks.

 

[tallbeardedone]

I specialise in the lowest form of wit, apologies. This is an excellent read:

https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...-thresholds-of-amp-and-dac-measurements.5734/

great link thanks

 

[Deleted member 21219]

I read all these subjective reviews (Goldensound and New Record Day's review of the Holo Audio May R2R DAC have nearly taken my money a hundred times) and they make me feel like I'm missing something if I don't upgrade my DAC.

There's your answer. Don't give any credence to subjective reviews. All they are is b.s., snake oil and talking points. Yes, they're carefully produced to "make you feel like you're missing something". That's their whole point.

Jim

 

[Bleib]

I've heard clear difference between a Denon 2900 CD/DVD/SACD player and a Benchmark DAC1. But in general the difference will mostly be elsewhere, but it's still possible to purchase bad sources.