Neumann KH150

[Pritaudio]

I have a feeling the HF distortion peak is because the woofer is having a hard time at the crossover.

I don't think adding kh750 will fix that. how did they allow this.

 

[Curvature]

I don't think adding kh750 will fix that. how did they allow this.

Both distortion peaks in the KH150 are narrow, low in level even at high output and dominated by H2. The probability is that they will be effectively masked.

 

[Pritaudio]

Do they have combined kh150 and kh750 thd on a similar graph.
isthat even possible with dsp.

 

[Pritaudio]

is the lower thd in the higher frequencies of the kh120 be due to the aluminium enclosure used. Otherwise I believe the tweeter is the same through the speaker lineup range.

 

[Scgorg]

Worth noting that these distortion spikes aren't even all that large, they just appear to be so due to the ridiculously low distortion on the woofer otherwise. Other than these 2 spikes the 95dB distortion is purifi PTT6.5 level. The 1.5kHz spike is still -50dB, that's 0.3% distortion.

 

[Grotti]

Worth noting that these distortion spikes aren't even all that large, they just appear to be so due to the ridiculously low distortion on the woofer otherwise. Other than these 2 spikes the 95dB distortion is purifi PTT6.5 level. The 1.5kHz spike is still -50dB, that's 0.3% distortion.

Due to the low crossover point (1.7kHz) the spike could also be caused by the tweeter. I suggest we stop guessing and wait patiently for Amirs measurements. I hope Neumann sends a pair to him...

 

[Curvature]

Do they have combined kh150 and kh750 thd on a similar graph.
isthat even possible with dsp.

They have a few graphs of the KH80+KH750. And then they have a paper on IMD which shows the beneficial effect of adding a subwoofer.

Edit: https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-750-aes67#technical-data There is however this review by S&R which shows a few more of the KH750+KH310: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/9395/download

The only THD data is at 95dB SPL, so we can't compare to my other graph.

Edit 2: Comparison of KH150 and KH750 THD at 95dB SPL. Wow. https://en-de.neumann.com/kh-150#technical-data

 

[Curvature]

is the lower thd in the higher frequencies of the kh120 be due to the aluminium enclosure used. Otherwise I believe the tweeter is the same through the speaker lineup range.

It could be unit variation. The difference isn't large. Tweeters heat up really fast so heat dissipation is a contributor too. We don't have enough data to say for sure.

Edit: The crossover and contribution by the woofer is a factor too.

 

[Curvature]

I'd like to say the spectrogram shows very good decay in the bass region. Compare to the S&R spectrogram of the KH80 here: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/7904/download

Some very light traces around 500Hz. Port noise?

 

[dfuller]

I'd like to say the spectrogram shows very good decay in the bass region. Compare to the S&R spectrogram of the KH80 here: https://en-de.neumann.com/product_files/7904/download

Some very light traces around 500Hz. Port noise?

Yeah, probably ports. But exceptionally well controlled, way way better than some of their competitors.

 

[Pearljam5000]

They look much better in white
I wonder why they don't also make a white KH420 and KH310

 

[Curvature]

I wonder why they don't also make a white KH420 and KH310

For years the main color produced was anthracite and the main environment was professional. The market has shifted significantly. A decade a go I hadn't met anyone who would have used actives specifically in their living room or bedroom outside of amateur producers.

It seems that Neumann prefers to have each new model represent a technical leap and spend effort to maintain existing performance in older designs instead of introducing variations to accommodate the market. It's a different mentality, not consumer oriented. They would rather create another model with multiple color options from the beginning. It simplifies planning and logistics when the manufacturing goals are clearly defined.

 

[tuga]

What precisely should it compensate for? I mean, being 2-way, 3-way is not a characterization of any performances.

A 3-way will potentially decrease IMD and HD levels and may help with off-axis response smoothness.

 

[Grotti]

A 3-way will potentially decrease IMD and HD levels and may help with off-axis response smoothness.

The keyword is "potentially".....

 

[Digby]

Pros:
With the grilles, an attractive, well executed white loudspeaker. The ones with black drivers showing just look cobbled together
Probably excellent measurements
Wall mountable, for maximum disappearing act

Cons:
Expensive

 

[danbei]

A 3-way will potentially decrease IMD and HD levels and may help with off-axis response smoothness.

Yes, those are the actual performances metrics we probably should focus on. 2 way, 3 way, 42 way is implementation detail, though it's interesting for curiosity's sake.

 

[tktran303]

Well have you noticed the only speaker that has a preference score of 8, so far, is a 4 way?

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

The single driver that does DC to 40KHz at theatre reference levels (85dB at listening position with 20dB dynamic range) doesn’t exist…

If you haven’t heard a large 3 way, you ain’t heard anything

 

[Grotti]

Well have you noticed the only speaker that has a preference score of 8, so far, is a 4 way?

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

The single driver that does DC to 40KHz at theatre reference levels (85dB at listening position with 20dB dynamic range) doesn’t exist…

If you haven’t heard a large 3 way, you ain’t heard anything

And the small Neumann KH 120 with EQ and Sub has 9.1 preference score... so this tells us all or nothing.

Again: not all of us are able to place a big 3 way (or 4 or x way for that matter) speaker in our living room and obviously even smaller 2 way designs can sound beautiful if used within their limits. To get more spl, bass extension or dynamic just add one or two woofers, if you have room for them.

I suppose I could perfectly live with about the 39 Hz the KH 150 provides (should be slightly deeper in room) since I only hear stereo music (no TV or HT). If not I would add 1 or 2 KH 750: done!

 

[thewas]

Well have you noticed the only speaker that has a preference score of 8, so far, is a 4 way?

Mainly because its spinorama from Harman is a quite old and quite smoothed, not like the later mainly 3rd party ones.

 

[dshreter]

Well have you noticed the only speaker that has a preference score of 8, so far, is a 4 way?

A collection of loudspeakers measurements

I’m pretty sure that can be attributed to few high end speakers having powered subwoofers built in. There are many modern 2-ways when combined with a sub (2+1 = 3 way) that have an even higher preference score,