Neumann KH150

[YSC]

Also the latency in digital/analogue conversions have a slightly higher latency than the kh80’s too.
hopefully won’t have any lip sync issues when used alongside the dsp features.

will see how high the latency will be, but if KH80 can be lower it wonders me why the 150 will have higher latency

 

[danbei]

I would guess it is because the phase is linearized to a lower frequency: 170 Hz (+/- 45°) for the KH80 vs 105 Hz (+/- 45°) for the KH150

 

[thewas]

View attachment 226395


Comparison of published Neumann data of THD at 90 dB SPL.

Where did you find the data for the KH150?

 

[Curvature]

Where did you find the data for the KH150?

KH 150 EU/KR

KH 150 - - Control Network,Self Calibration,Digital + Analog Input,Delay,Broadcast,Home Studio,Domestic Environment,Editing Suite,Professional Recording Studio,Up to 6 m (18 ft),Up to 4 m (12 ft),Up to 3 m (9 ft),Nearfield Monitor,Down to 57 Hz,Down to 52 Hz - Sennheiser Discover True Sound

en-de.neumann.com

@DjBonoBobo was the first one to find it. No directivity data though, which is disappointing.

 

[thewas]

KH 150 EU/KR

KH 150 - - Control Network,Self Calibration,Digital + Analog Input,Delay,Broadcast,Home Studio,Domestic Environment,Editing Suite,Professional Recording Studio,Up to 6 m (18 ft),Up to 4 m (12 ft),Up to 3 m (9 ft),Nearfield Monitor,Down to 57 Hz,Down to 52 Hz - Sennheiser Discover True Sound

en-de.neumann.com

@DjBonoBobo was the first one to find it. No directivity data though, which is disappointing.

Thank you, in this case the THD comparison to the KH310 is quite impressive being very similar and actually in the bass from 40 to 300 Hz lower and just at a narrow band (1-2 kHz) higher. Hope there will be also directivity and multitone measurements soon.

 

[Grotti]

Thank you, in this case the THD comparison to the KH310 is quite impressive being very similar and actually in the bass from 40 to 300 Hz lower and just at a narrow band (1-2 kHz) higher. Hope there will be also directivity and multitone measurements soon.

Yes, the measurements are quite promising... And when the directivity is as good as with other Neumann speakers, this could be my next purchase. Add two 750 subwoofers and it could be nearly SOTA for an average living room in an apartment.

So far for the 8 inch and 6,5 inch comparison, @Pearljam5000

 

[Pearljam5000]

Yes, the measurements are quite promising... And when the directivity is as good as with other Neumann speakers, this could be my next purchase. Add two 750 subwoofers and it could be nearly SOTA for an average living room in an apartment.

So far for the 8 inch and 6,5 inch comparison, @Pearljam5000

There's still the 2-way vs 3-way debate

 

[lherrm]

There's still the 2-way vs 3-way debate

And DSP / no DSP.
But, when you buy, do you care more about the results or the design of the system ?
What if the KH150 measures better than KH310A ?

 

[Grotti]

And DSP / no DSP.
But, when you buy, do you care more about the results or the design of the system ?
What if the KH150 measures better than KH310A ?

With one or two subs and the KH 150 HP filtered it would be a three way system. And the distortion of the midwoofer should be reduced by filtering deep bass.... In other words: I think this combination would be superior to the KH 310 but it comes at a price though.

 

[Pearljam5000]

And DSP / no DSP.
But, when you buy, do you care more about the results or the design of the system ?
What if the KH150 measures better than KH310A ?

The question is can the DSP compensate for the KH150 being a 2-way vs a 3-way?
Would be interesting to hear the KH150 calibrated vs the KH310 without any room correction.
I have a feeling the KH310 would still be better.
It's still an extra driver and an extra amp.

 

[danbei]

The question is can the DSP compensate for the KH150 being a 2-way vs a 3-way?

What precisely should it compensate for? I mean, being 2-way, 3-way is not a characterization of any performances.

 

[Grotti]

What precisely should it compensate for? I mean, being 2-way, 3-way is not a characterization of any performances.

You are perfectly right: 3-way is not an advantage by itself. I know quite a few 3-way speakers, which sound mediocre at least due to bad engineering. As my old boss used to say: "2 ways, 2 problems; 3 ways, 3 problems..."

As long as a 2-way speaker measures good and the dynamic capabilities and the bass extension are sufficient for the intended use, there is no need for a 3-way. And for dynamic and bass extension there are subwoofers...

 

[Pearljam5000]

You are perfectly right: 3-way is not an advantage by itself. I know quite a few 3-way speakers, which sound mediocre at least due to bad engineering. As my old boss used to say: "2 ways, 2 problems; 3 ways, 3 problems..."

As long as a 2-way speaker measures good and the dynamic capabilities and the bass extension are sufficient for the intended use, there is no need for a 3-way. And for dynamic and bass extension there are subwoofers...

Your example doesn't apply here, because they are both Neumann products, so both are excellently designed.

 

[YSC]

Your example doesn't apply here, because they are both Neumann products, so both are excellently designed.

as long as you are using them at recommended listening distance and SPL I can't imagine you couls spot the difference, when the dispersion and distortiton being similar

 

[Grotti]

Your example doesn't apply here, because they are both Neumann products, so both are excellently designed.

It is about the argument, that a 3-way has an advantage by being a 3-way design. This is not necessarily true when the 2-way is properly designed and used within its limits. Look at the distortion graph again: the KH 150 performs slightly better than the bigger 3-way KH 310 at 90 dB (used within its limits)...

And for me it's also about integrating a speaker in my living room, btw. It is much easier for me with the KH 150 because of the same form factor my Amphion speakers have ;o)

 

[thewas]

This is not necessarily true when the 2-way is properly designed and used within its limits. Look at the distortion graph again: the KH 150 performs slightly better than the bigger 3-way KH 310 at 90 dB (used within its limits)...

Cannot wait to see the multitone distortion comparison of the both though, which is the domain where a good 3-way designs shine.

 

[Curvature]

Cannot wait to see the multitone distortion comparison of the both though, which is the domain where a good 3-way designs shine.

I have a feeling the HF distortion peak is because the woofer is having a hard time at the crossover.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It is about the argument, that a 3-way has an advantage by being a 3-way design. This is not necessarily true when the 2-way is properly designed and used within its limits. Look at the distortion graph again: the KH 150 performs slightly better than the bigger 3-way KH 310 at 90 dB (used within its limits)...

And for me it's also about integrating a speaker in my living room, btw. It is much easier for me with the KH 150 because of the same form factor my Amphion speakers have ;o)

So what are you basically saying
That all 3-way speakers are redundant and 2-way is enough?

 

[Curvature]

So what are you basically saying
That all 3-way speakers are redundant and 2-way is enough?

I'll try to summarize, if you don't mind.

Imagine a 3 way speaker. That's super abstract: we have no idea about the number of drivers, shape, the bass loading (sealed/vented), size, electronics required, frequency response, directivity, distortion or anything very concrete.

Driver material, cabinet material, size, a few other things discussed in this thread and the number of ways act as a system, as the books would put it. One thing isn't more important or more dominant than another. The result of it all is what matters. With measurements you can investigate the contribution of design features and judge how much they matter. Tell me about a speaker with beryllium drivers and I'll have no reaction until you either play it for me or give me some graphs.

Generally speaking, 3 ways tend to be bigger, have more bass, show less IMD, more output and have more pronounced directivity errors, but not necessarily. Due to some frankly incredible advances in driver, baffle and cabinet design and use of active electronics we have 2 way speakers that easily outperform more traditional 3+ way designs. Think of how much was achieved with the JBL M2 and Genelec S360.

 

[Grotti]

I'll try to summarize, if you don't mind.

Imagine a 3 way speaker. That's super abstract: we have no idea about the number of drivers, shape, the bass loading (sealed/vented), size, electronics required, frequency response, directivity, distortion or anything very concrete.

Driver material, cabinet material, size, a few other things discussed in this thread and the number of ways act as a system, as the books would put it. One thing isn't more important or more dominant than another. The result of it all is what matters. With measurements you can investigate the contribution of design features and judge how much they matter. Tell me about a speaker with beryllium drivers and I'll have no reaction until you either play it for me or give me some graphs.

Generally speaking, 3 ways tend to be bigger, have more bass, show less IMD, more output and have more pronounced directivity errors, but not necessarily. Due to some frankly incredible advances in driver, baffle and cabinet design and use of active electronics we have 2 way speakers that easily outperform more traditional 3+ way designs. Think of how much was achieved with the JBL M2 and Genelec S360.

Thank you for your answer. Being limited in English language (and on holidays abroad at the moment) I would have not been able to explain it this way. I underline every word of your post...