• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Fix your RME ADI 2 - FS DAC sound.

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
EDIT:

I feel like a should buy some flowers to fellow members of audiosciene forum. Based on their response, whole problem was with Digital DC Protection which was on (filter) by DEFAULT! I dont know why RME though that its good idea to turn on such function to mess with your audio by default. I feel like this should turn on someone who knows what he is doing. I actually was thinking before if that setting dont mess with audio, but I could not find such information at online manual by RME. Propably my mistake, I should read ton of text around it. Just proposition to how to explain it to normal people at manual with just few words :)

Digital DC Protection: OFF - your system will burn at hell
ON - your system will propably burn at hell
Filter - emotions and dynamict at your music will burn at hell

I turned that garbage off and problem is fixed. Whole sound is now present in my room and dynamics returned back. What a difference! Sound is not distant and empty anymore.

Maybe it needs better implementation a few hz lower. I dont know.

By default you have basicly equalizer on which is touching frequencies 60hz and below. So even in audible range.

That being said, I would love to know if that fancy SINAD measurements were with this cheating function active. Just to compare apples with apples.

Also that would be a beutiful world if someone (Amir ;) ) will find a way to measure changes at sound. I dont understand why despite dacmagic and RME having the same frequency response (and phase); differences at bass reproduction are so huge. Dacmagic is gravitational heavy, RME is just airy, empty. If someone find a way how to measure even frequency reproduction itself... it would be a gamechanging I think :)

Anyway if you have RME ADI-2 FS DAC, I strongly recomend to turn that rubish High Shelf filter at Digital DC Protection OFF by switching it to state: ON.

Thanks forum members, you saved my RME; its staying.

End of inserted text.
Original post follows.




I decided to register just to be able to clarify some myths about this DAC.

First of all, I wanna do some aliby for myself. I am going to present my personal findings followed by some basic measurements.
If you got your RME and you are happy about a sound, stop reading here. I dont want to spoil good times with this DAC for anyone.
But if you got it, and you still have a feeling like there is something whats not right with a sound; keep reading, this post is for you.

First some subjective story.
I have Dacmagic plus and I was quite satisfied with sound. Time had come and I decied to buy something more advanced. I red all the good stuf from anyone about RME. Since vast majority of ,,science" people say, that good DACs sound about the same I pulled a triger. I got a ESS version burned about 100 hours. There was time to start listening and enjoying. But few seconds on my favourite songs passed and I was shocked by two things. First, how CLEAN everything sounds... I was like holly sh*t. But few moment later I felt like... ok, really nice but where is bottom end? Why drums sounds like child farts? Where is any low dynamics? Where is ,,reallnes" ? I told myself ok, screw that. The sound is clean, propably so acurate and professional that it should sound like that. But time passed and I started to hate that sound. I couldnt believe that device at that price sounds so hollow, empty. After I switched to my dacmagic; whole sound sudenly came back to life. More dirty but emotions came back, drums started to hit and presurise like they should, whole ,,presence" of audio came back. Right away I recalled about comparison with chord qutest 2 like it has ,,more intimate sound". What it is? Anyway I think this is not audiofools forum so its time to go on.....

Objective part

So I remembered about my focusrite and started to make some frequency measurements. If I am not crazy, REW will tell me. I wish I didnt; cause it made me feel like I threw my money through a window by purchasing this.

rme FR .jpg

dacmagic plus FR.png

What you see on measurements? At first sight, everything is quite right.
But here we go first unpleasant surprise. At recent time I red here comparison ESS and AKM versions. But what author didnt mentions is falling frequency response slope below 40 hz. By strange accident even in his table he stated frequencies from 45-20 000hz. I wish I red that so carefully earlier cause it could be quite suspicious for me. At 20 HZ; which is still perfectly audible frequency you have drop 0,2 db. Folloved by rise at highs your whole sound energy goes forward high frequencies. But this could not be it. Differences are not that tragic so there must be something else going on. Look at cambridge; do you know where we are going to?

The big problem starts below 20 hz. It needs to be researched properly.


Humans can hear somewhere down to 18hz thats objective truth. But range 10-20 HZ is perfectly audible if those frequencies are mixed with the rest of frequencies. Even below 10hz is being discused and researched until this day. If you drop those frequencies you will loose wast majority of pressure from sound. Drums will change to child farts, vocals become less present etc. I think I sence some cheating here. If you recess this kind of frequencies you ll also get rid of a lot of ,,sound trash". Everything will sound much more clearer and cleaner... but empty and hollow.

Do you ask me how I know? Of course I did A/B comparison with dacmagic but:

If you have a RME ADI -2 FS DAC with ESS (maybe it ll work for AKM too), lets engage that fancy equalizer. On my pc setting are as follows:
I did my best but RME fancy eq wont allow you to fix whole range. Anyway I finished somewhere halfway with this settings:

Using RCA output:
windows audio slider: 100%
Filter: slow
ref level +7dbu
volume -6.5db
Bass knob +0.5
EQ:
B1 shelf mode G+1 F 20 Q 0.6
B2 G-0.5 F25 Q 0.6
B3 G-0.5 F 60 Q 2.5

and if you like a small fix for highs at eq too: shelf mode B5 F 20 000 G-0.5 Q2.5

I still had my doubts till I started playing music. But unfortunatelly It worked. Differences at EQ ON/OFF were enormous. Emotions went live, drums started to sound more like a drums and whole sound became less ,,thin". I was unable to bring back everything, but It sounds much; much better.

And this is it. I red claims like this soundcard sound like nothing and that it can sound like anything. I absolutelly dont agree with this claim. At least my RME sounds like RME and whatever I ll do, it will alway sound like a RME. With huge hole at the bottom of frequencies. I would like to believe that engineers will do some firmware upgrade and let us choose for example with function to bring lost frequencies back. But I realise that that are just my wet dreams. I expect to happen something like a ,,new magical RME range of DACs with more solid sound" in a future with this difference. Again for new money. Or some theory about DC polution at empty frequencies. I wish I was wrong. And I bet that If you measure that chord qutest, it ll have those frequencies on... maybe a bit exaterated, but I am just quesing.

I know how mixing proces goes, and I know about cuts being made at 20 hz. But those cuts are not that sharp as you think. And somethimes a bit ,,actually listening" can be a good thing at audio hobby and this is difference nigh/day.

At the moment I feel a huge letdown. Nobody here mentioned this data. If you want to be scientific, you should relly on data and not to opinions I believe. At this point by memory this soundcard sounds to me like a SU-6 which cost 170 euro. I wish I didnt return it; I would like to measure it and compare.

Thats it, my mighty perfect RME goes away if nobody will fix this and I ll buy something which wont seem to me like a cheating in audio creation process. I believe that whole reason for art like music is to produce emotions.


I hope that at least this will help to those people which are a bit confused by sound coming out of this device.

All the best
 
Last edited by a moderator:

ampguy

Active Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2022
Messages
268
Likes
152
Location
US
Do you have speakers or transducers that have output below 20Hz? I have some of the less accurate than say the latest Topping and SMSLs (Ares II, and Modi Multibit), that sound great, despite their higher distortions lower specs, but my speakers and subs output very little below 25 Hz, and even then, it is more feel, than sound.
 
OP
R

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
I have NAD C388 connected with cambridge and Elac speakers with yamaha subwoofer. Everything has output below 20hz at some level, try run one sweep at your room or near your speakers.. those frequencies will be there. I would like to see if any RME ESS user try those settings and if it ll be better.
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
What sample rate were you using? Reason I ask is the spec for this device claims different tolerances for different rates. I would have guessed the differences were on the high end, but perhaps not. The claim for 44.1 khz is .1 db from 0 hz to 20.2 khz. You didn't get that in your measurements.

1661298973029.png
 
OP
R

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
What sample rate were you using? Reason I ask is the spec for this device claims different tolerances for different rates. I would have guessed the differences were on the high end, but perhaps not. The claim for 44.1 khz is .1 db from 0 hz to 20.2 khz. You didn't get that in your measurements.

View attachment 226268
Thank you for your input. I am using 44.1 khz 16 bit for measurement and for audio reproduction. That spec is really interesting and totally not met with my unit. I am usin RCA, not XLR but I dont mind they would do difference in that two.... hmm, strange
 

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,524
Likes
37,057
Thank you for your input. I am using 44.1 khz 16 bit for measurement and for audio reproduction. That spec is really interesting and totally not met with my unit. I am usin RCA, not XLR but I dont mind they would do difference in that two.... hmm, strange
I cut off the part with RCA specs, but for FR they had a note saying RCA is the same as XLR. It would be fair to ask which Focusrite ADC you are using. I have an 18i20 and specs are for +/- .1 db 20hz to 20 khz. I don't recall what results I get below 20 hz with it.
 
OP
R

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
I cut off the part with RCA specs, but for FR they had a note saying RCA is the same as XLR. It would be fair to ask which Focusrite ADC you are using. I have an 18i20 and specs are for +/- .1 db 20hz to 20 khz. I don't recall what results I get below 20 hz with it.
Dacmagic was measured 30 seconds earlier than RME with exact same gear with no change. Also I measured repeatly both devices with same gear for few days. So I dont expect fault at equipment. Focusrite is Scarlet Solo 2 gen.Plus as I described I can hear that.
 

Rja4000

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
2,682
Likes
4,220
Location
Liège, Belgium
At 20 HZ; which is still perfectly audible frequency you have drop 0,2 db
I highly doubt you could hear 0.2dB difference at 20Hz.

But if you're interested by the reason of this high pass filter, you should read the chapter "Digital DC Protection" in the manual.
You'll learn that it's done to protect your system.

You'll also learn that you can disable the HPF if you whish in the "settings" menu (change "Digital DC Protection" from default "filter" to "on")
and you'll most probably discover then that this has no audible impact.
 

Rja4000

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
2,682
Likes
4,220
Location
Liège, Belgium
range 10-20 HZ is perfectly audible if those frequencies are mixed with the rest of frequencies.
I suspect those ranges will have impact especially if they drive high harmonic distortion, which will land in audible spectrum.

That may be the difference you're hearing: if your source material actually has content below 20Hz (which you can check by analyzing the source content), and if it triggers high harmonic distortion in your system.
With the RME filter active, this won't happen.

But I'm just guessing here.
 
OP
R

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
I highly doubt you could hear 0.2dB difference at 20Hz.

But if you're interested by the reason of this high pass filter, you should read the chapter "Digital DC Protection" in the manual.
You'll learn that it's done to protect your system.

You'll also learn that you can disable the HPF if you whish in the "settings" menu (change "Digital DC Protection" from default "filter" to "on")
and you'll most probably discover then that this has no audible impact.
That did the trick! Splendid! Actually I was watching at that setting before and asumed its protection against shortage at circuit, not protection from emotions at sound! :O Thank you for your advice. Now its 3 am at my country, gonna try listening tomorow.
 

DonDish

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
205
Likes
161
Location
Scandinavian peninsula
Happy you sorted it out :D I mean WTF, I had an early revision of DM plus. It had warm listenable sound, but when I put it up against the ADI you could easily discern tons of noise. Absolutely no need for an blindtest. I gotta dig into these DC protections to check this out. Thnx for posting!
 

Jimster480

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 26, 2018
Messages
2,880
Likes
2,032
Location
Tampa Bay
Do you have speakers or transducers that have output below 20Hz? I have some of the less accurate than say the latest Topping and SMSLs (Ares II, and Modi Multibit), that sound great, despite their higher distortions lower specs, but my speakers and subs output very little below 25 Hz, and even then, it is more feel, than sound.
Modi multi bit has horrible performance. Top level details are lost.
 

MaxwellsEq

Major Contributor
Joined
Aug 18, 2020
Messages
1,628
Likes
2,426
It looks like the DacMagic Plus measures OK:
 
OP
R

RamiellDeAnn

Member
Joined
Aug 23, 2022
Messages
11
Likes
16
Happy you sorted it out :D I mean WTF, I had an early revision of DM plus. It had warm listenable sound, but when I put it up against the ADI you could easily discern tons of noise. Absolutely no need for an blindtest. I gotta dig into these DC protections to check this out. Thnx for posting!
You are welcome... definetely give it a try. At default they put EQ on sound... thats something what user should do! Thinks are better now but that being said.... Its very hard for me to say goodbye to my dacmagic plus. I think its broken and it drives me crazy. Once I turn it on and sound is like bloated. Another day I turn it on and sound is transparent... like it has some problem with highs. But that basic measurements were same for a cople of days I tried random. About warm sound of dacmagic plus... just delete original cambridge drivers and let it run default at usb clas 1 mode. Sound will be transparent and tight at bottom. They propably did ,,art coloration" through drivers.

Now after fix I am quite happy with ADI sound but actually I am still a bit uncertain. I believed this is really neutral DAC but at least for me, it doesnt sound that way yet. Maybe I spent too much time with dacmagic :) For me ADI has beautiful mids, eh... ok highs but basses are.... strangely soft and airy. Maybe it was an intention cause if you have airy bases, your brain can focus and pick better rest of the frequencies. Nice idea but I wouldnt cal that presentation ,,neutral" by any means. I know this is not audiophile forum but until Amir finds a way to measure not just distortion; but actually how this devices sound compared this is all we have. Because there are diferences. Between dacmagic plus and ADI its night/day despite same frequency response. SU-6 sounded different too, but being said it was very close to ADI. For me a bit shame. SU-6 lacked dynamics at lows compared a bit but actually bass frequencies were much more pronounced - detailed, gravitational. I had SU-9n for a while too and that was rubbish. I dont know if my piece was broken but sound was muddy like hell.
 

DonDish

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
205
Likes
161
Location
Scandinavian peninsula
Just tried out the DC protection settings. Mine was set to "ON". I really cant tell a difference between "ON" or "OFF", but "FILTER" kill some bass. Which makes sense since its a lowpass filter. Corner frequenzy is 7hz.

About the DM+. I bought it dirt cheap at a flee market. It was my first DAC. Setup via XLR to my amp I thought it sounded fantastic so it gave me lots of satisfaction. When I got the ADI-2 DAC and did a comparison the DM+ sounded, like I said warm and very, very coloured sound and noisy. Colouring not nesessarily a bad thing in a home-fi environment, but the RME was razor sharp "lifted veil" type experience. I goes to the story that I bought DM+ so cheap that I sold it at 500% + with a clear conciousness.
 

Rednaxela

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 30, 2022
Messages
2,052
Likes
2,676
Location
NL
main post edited
Could you please put the edit at the top of your post?

If there's any truth being revealed here it is that you did not RTFM closely enough up front.

No offense at all. Could have happened to me too. But I think RME deserves a clear warning about this preceding this one:

If you got your RME and you are happy about a sound, stop reading here. I dont want to spoil good times with this DAC for anyone.

Regardless your opinions on their technical design choices and subjective listening impressions.
 

DonDish

Active Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2022
Messages
205
Likes
161
Location
Scandinavian peninsula
This topic should be named: DC protection in ADI-2 DAC/PRO or something, current is totally misleading.

About ADI DC protection. ADI-2 DAC/PRO has hardware DC protection by relais that kicks in at certain amounts of DC at the outputs. Digital DC protection works at DC in the digital signal ie music thats been recorded and reproduced with DC and infrasound information intact(it should be filtered out in the mixing)
"ON" mutes the signal when DC(in the digital signal) is detected. When DC drops below threshold value the signal unmutes.
"OFF" just turns this muting off.
"FILTER" introduce a low pass filter, corner freq 7hz to kill DC and infrasound components. This filter is always ON when set in menu.
Hardware DC protection is always on.

So the "ON" setting doesnt alter sound(until it acually mutes it). The manual states that the "FILTER" setting does not alter the sound. Im not so sure. Owners should study these passages and make comparisons for themselves. Anyway with the amounts of power ADI-2 DAC/PRO can deliver these are very handy features. Even if it alters the sound it could be a worthwhile compromise given the examples mentioned by @MC_RME in the manual(soundtracks etc).

A thought experiment: If the recorded signal introduces distortion in an otherwise healthy system and you remove the source of that distortion from the original recording the sound is changed by definition. You cant make a claim that this is what it should actually sound like if the mixing engineers didnt do such a sloppy job. That would be quite a trick.

Im very sure the measurement horny crowd here will find the forensic evidence they need to exonerate or start the executions :D

Reservations made if im to stupid to actually understand this
 
Last edited:
Top Bottom