When did class D start to not suck?

[ZolaIII]

Did you miss the top ASR amplifier chart? Don’t tell me Hypex Ncore or Purifi aren’t great…

I kindly asked you and everyone else to stop abusing amplifier classification and making mess.
We can argue how class G introduces voltage rail modulation which is a turning point (and great engineering one) and how it whose otherwise based prior to class D and how class H inherited all of that and added whatever. Sooner you realise those are separate classes and start acting acording to that you won't have problems.

 

[sq225917]

The answer is, some class d amps still suck, just like some class A, A/B, SE valve, push pull valve and others still suck. There are good and bad examples of all. That sony was probably the first one that didn't suck.

Increasingly with time stuff above a certain price point gets better, the question is just wrong headed.

 

[voodooless]

I kindly asked you and everyone else to stop abusing amplifier classification and making mess.

You are the one declaring a whole classification as “sucking”, so I don’t know what you want from me?

 

[Zaireeka]

At some point in the future "vintage class D" will be the real deal for audiophiles

 

[antcollinet]

I kindly asked you and everyone else to stop abusing amplifier classification and making mess.
We can argue how class G introduces voltage rail modulation which is a turning point (and great engineering one) and how it whose otherwise based prior to class D and how class H inherited all of that and added whatever. Sooner you realise those are separate classes and start acting acording to that you won't have problems.

You seem to be suggesting that G and H are developments of Class D - and hence all good “class D“ are really G or H.

(If I am undestanding you correctly - it is not exactly clear what you are saying)

However - also if I understand correctly G and H are developments of Class AB and just change improve the efficiency by controlling the supply rails.

 

[ZolaIII]

You are the one declaring a whole classification as “sucking”, so I don’t know what you want from me?

Actually starting to think you have a reading problem along with cognitive bias. Stop turning around the meaning of what I wrote! Such pore maieutics simply can't pass.
Traditional class D with quarter phase will never be great (it can be good with enough engineering effort and certainly is most power and cost efficient so it will have a wide commercial application for a long time if not for ever). With full phase class G-H is. There are examples of equly great AB class one's (Benchmark, vintage Hitachi ones...) and we had a demonstration with explanation recently of how to build a great class A one from PMA (and how it could be extended to AB one).

 

[ZolaIII]

@tonycollinet G-H are based on D with highlighted crucial change which marked class G as separate one.

 

[SIY]

I don't know if they were the first, but Norman Crowhurst was building and demonstrating high performance Class D amps 50 years ago.

For full acceptance by "audiophiles," a tiny tiny sliver of the market, the old amp designers who substitute propaganda for updating their skills and outlooks will have to die out.

 

[Matias]

Hypex UcD was the first one I know of that was designed to deliver flat frequency response regardless of load. That would have been 2005ish?

This. But UcD still has increasing distortion in the treble in high power.

To me it was really NCore that definitively fixed it all. Was the NC400 DIY launched around 2014?

Edit: the NCore white paper is from 2011, so maybe NC400 was from 2012? @Hypexsales

https://www.hypex.nl/img/upload/doc/an_wp/WP_Ncore_Technology.pdf

 

[voodooless]

Actually starting to think you have a reading problem along with cognitive bias. Stop turning around the meaning of what I wrote!

Then do a better job explaining what you mean. Repeating the same things over and over won’t work. If people don’t understand one way, try another. Looks like I’m not the only one having a hard time understanding what you mean anyway..

Traditional class D with quarter phase will never be great (it can be good with enough engineering effort and certainly is most power and cost efficient so it will have a wide commercial application for a long time if not for ever). With full phase class G-H is.

How is class G and H relevant to class D?

 

[Sokel]

B&O made the A series in 2001 and gave samsung the first ones for mobile use in 2003.And that's a big market.

Not great performance back then but still...

 

[JimFarrell29]

I dont know if you are looking for performance or popularity. I may be wrong but on popular side 'Sonic Impact Class T' amplifier became very popular 15 years ago. Dont know how many were sold.
regards

I just found my sonic impact amp yesterday in a box with assorted playstation accessories. I look forward to hooking it up again. It really sounded pretty good within its limitations. I only bought it out of curiosity at the time.

 

[ZolaIII]

Then do a better job explaining what you mean. Repeating the same things over and over won’t work. If people don’t understand one way, try another. Looks like I’m not the only one having a hard time understanding what you mean anyway..

How is class G and H relevant to class D?

It's digital high integrated IC so very but those are classes for them self. I really thought that much is self understandable and that I don't need to explain it, my bad. All SoM's you mentioned are with class H (SoC's).

 

[boXem]

It's digital high integrated IC so very but those are classes for them self. I really thought that much is self understandable and that I don't need to explain it, my bad. All SoM's you mentioned are with class H (SoC's).

Amplification is never digital.
No IC has shown up allowing high fidelity up to now.

That may be the reasons why people do not understand you.

 

[Gorgonzola]

To date I've owned & used five class D amps since 2003 -- none of them "sucked".

1. The first was a Bel Canto eV02i integrated, about 2003, that used Tripath technology.
2. A DIY Class D Audio SDS 258, about 2010, that used an IRS2092 chips with a linear power supply. Recently modified this amp to use a Connexelectronics SMPS800RE power supply which, together with tidying the wire produce at least a subjective improvement. I still have this amp today that I keep for backup: still sounds pretty decent though maybe a bit less so than my current Purifi.
3. More recently, ICEpower 200ASC the I assembled in Ghentaudio cabinets, in 2020.
4. A VTV stereo using Hypex NC252MP.
5. A VTV stereo Purifi 1ET400A using VTV buffers which is my main amp today.

Here's a pic of my "upgraded" Class D Audio 258 with Connexelectronic SMPS ...

 

[voodooless]

Amplification is never digital.
No IC has shown up allowing high fidelity up to now.

There is this one: https://www.axign.nl/

That may be the reasons why people do not understand you.

Among other things…

Digital does not make it class D. The D does not stand for “digital”. Nor does class H need an soc. Do an image search for class H amplifier circuits, the vast majority just use conventional parts.

Class D means some sort of pulse modulated output that is low pass filtered. The fact that some class H or G amps use an SMPS does not make it class D. If that were true, a class A amplifier with an SMPS would also be class D.

 

[boXem]

There is this one: https://www.axign.nl/

I thought about it when typing. But noise level is quite high. It's main strength it that it is the only one with proper post filter feedback.

 

[ZolaIII]

Amplification is never digital.
No IC has shown up allowing high fidelity up to now.

That may be the reasons why people do not understand you.

Yes they are mixed DC (analog/digital) integrated circuits on the bord and independent systems as such and of course RF part will remain analog for example. That's called SoM (system on module) this day's. It's contained of SoC (system on chip) with additional regulation elements and PCB for it. Which all of those are. Of course when we talk about solid state class AB we see it as independent transistors (MOSFET's, GREC's...) and not anything tighter integrated.
Seams I nead to drawn and colored it in order for you to follow which I am really not ready to do and even more so as it would be in wein even if I did.
So what did you say about all "class leading" SoM's you all drool on here?
And all of them regarding amplifier classification are class H SoM's.

 

[voodooless]

And all of them regarding amplifier classification are class H SoM's.

Can you provide some examples?

 

[ZolaIII]

Did you miss the top ASR amplifier chart? Don’t tell me Hypex Ncore or Purifi aren’t great…

Is that enough of a example?