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Review and Measurements of MARCH audio dac1
- Thread starter amirm
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Value might just be the most subjective and circumstantial based thing there can be.
We must avoid applying value judgements as a order of fact. They do of course serve to express our own pov.
Ultimately time will judge and the guy with skin in the game will succeed or fail. Such is the way when you put your wallet where your mouth is.
Should we not be grateful to those who provide us with choice, doing so keeps the market honest imo and costs us nothing.
graz_lag
Major Contributor
Buy it to check that ... three units : the 1st that is going to be destroyed by your inspection, the 2nd that you ship to the folks at Khadas in order to get confirmation abt. the results of your investigation on the 1st unit, and the 3rd one ultimately to play with ...
@March Audio will be glad to offer you some discount for the purchasing of three units ...
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Veri
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I suppose the response so far was to be expected what with the respect for Chinese Topping and others, and the use of the same 9038Q2M chip..
The 'Tone' could have been more respectful though come on guys buying/consuming is easier than making/creating!
Edit: it was a ruse all along, move along nothing to see here
The 'Tone' could have been more respectful though come on guys
buying/consuming is easier than making/creating!Edit: it was a ruse all along, move along nothing to see here
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Johnb
Active Member
Thomas, you slay me!
OP
- Thread Starter
- #66
Folks, let me provide some perspective here.
I wouldn't be able to make that box and ship it empty to you all at that price and still stay in business! If one of you thinks you can, then you should go and start your own business. It takes countless hours of mechanical design, coordination with asian manufacturer, paying for tooling and prototyping to get there. I know because Alan sent me early prototypes that had to be scrapped due to mistakes in manufacturing.
If he sells 100 of these and all of it is profit, that is $40,000. He could make that money working at a normal high-tech job as he already does without dealing with the grief of getting into audio business.
I think he is doing this because he loves audio and likes a more unique product than exists today. In this case it is performance at the top tier of Chinese but with support, forum participation, very high fit and finish of the case, etc. I have lost track of how many times I have recommended a Chinese product and be told they don't want to order things from China, deal with language issues, etc.
I think there is a great market for identical product at $200. Which one of you wants to deliver that? I sure as heck know I won't. And I certainly would not suggest Alan go there either, lest he wants to subsidize you all buying that gear.
With much higher volume, die casting can be used to bring the cost of the case down but the tooling of that even in China is $50K to $70K. It just not going to happen. So you are stuck with CNC machining a big chunk of aluminum as is done with high-end audio products. Many put the case open at show and brag about that aspect of it and they charge thousands of dollars for their products.
We had a similar situation with Neurochrome HP-1 headphone amplifier and Massdrop THX amp. People keep asking me whether they should spend the extra money on HP-1. My answer is do you want innovative people building HP1 or not? If you do, support that business. That ought to have some value for people.
Finally, wait 'till he has entire suite of products. As I said, he has a unique strategy and approach that might grow on you.
All of this said, yes, it is my damn fault to have trained you all to want the best for next to no money. I appreciate the drive to get the best possible value and have that bragging medal. So sure, this product is priced too high in that respect. The reaction though should be ignore, than pounding on Alan on why he charges a few hundred dollars for hand built products.
I wouldn't be able to make that box and ship it empty to you all at that price and still stay in business! If one of you thinks you can, then you should go and start your own business. It takes countless hours of mechanical design, coordination with asian manufacturer, paying for tooling and prototyping to get there. I know because Alan sent me early prototypes that had to be scrapped due to mistakes in manufacturing.
If he sells 100 of these and all of it is profit, that is $40,000. He could make that money working at a normal high-tech job as he already does without dealing with the grief of getting into audio business.
I think he is doing this because he loves audio and likes a more unique product than exists today. In this case it is performance at the top tier of Chinese but with support, forum participation, very high fit and finish of the case, etc. I have lost track of how many times I have recommended a Chinese product and be told they don't want to order things from China, deal with language issues, etc.
I think there is a great market for identical product at $200. Which one of you wants to deliver that? I sure as heck know I won't.
And I certainly would not suggest Alan go there either, lest he wants to subsidize you all buying that gear.With much higher volume, die casting can be used to bring the cost of the case down but the tooling of that even in China is $50K to $70K. It just not going to happen. So you are stuck with CNC machining a big chunk of aluminum as is done with high-end audio products. Many put the case open at show and brag about that aspect of it and they charge thousands of dollars for their products.
We had a similar situation with Neurochrome HP-1 headphone amplifier and Massdrop THX amp. People keep asking me whether they should spend the extra money on HP-1. My answer is do you want innovative people building HP1 or not? If you do, support that business. That ought to have some value for people.
Finally, wait 'till he has entire suite of products. As I said, he has a unique strategy and approach that might grow on you.
All of this said, yes, it is my damn fault to have trained you all to want the best for next to no money.
I appreciate the drive to get the best possible value and have that bragging medal. So sure, this product is priced too high in that respect. The reaction though should be ignore, than pounding on Alan on why he charges a few hundred dollars for hand built products.
Its a cheapskate revolt and its all amirs fault ..
It was a open goal .
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I believe Thomas is in the UK. He won't understand either of us.
D
Deleted member 2944
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My goodness gracious. There's nothing wrong at all with the price of this March product.
Some folks need to get a grip here.
Dave.
Some folks need to get a grip here.
Dave.
The minimalism definitely fills a niche and appeals to a certain aesthetic.
For me however I like having the little lcd display. If anything, I can use it to debug problems like to confirm what format my source really is trying to output to the dac.
For me however I like having the little lcd display. If anything, I can use it to debug problems like to confirm what format my source really is trying to output to the dac.
I believe Thomas is in the UK. He won't understand either of us.
Not to mention that we all belong to the working class, unlike his Lordship...
All of this said, yes, it is my damn fault to have trained you all to want the best for next to no money.
Damn right it's all your fault. Always
I must admit I initially had sticker price shock. But then I thought about economies of scale and this makes sense. Doesn't hurt for a forum regular to throw his hat in the ring. If it is high quality and stands the test of time better than cheaper products, it may turn out to be a better deal in the long run.It's a boutique product, priced accordingly and measures well. Carry on folks?
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With the low volumes, I would guess these count as custom cases. I would imagine the case forms a large percentage of BOM cost.
Headphonaholic
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I've had the privilege of testing Alan's dac and headphone amp prototypes and in doing so I got to learn more about who he is. He is an engineer that loves audio and what he does, plain and simple. He's not trying to pull a fast one on anyone. He is among the few honest people in the business.
People have brought up price in other threads regarding his forthcoming product releases and he has plainly stated that he isn't interested in a race to the bottom. He's doing his own thing and he is sticking to it, I can appreciate that. Whether his dac is a value is a decision for each person to decide.
I have no idea what his profit margins are, quite frankly it's non of my business, but I believe he is operating close to it based on things Amir and others have stated about the costs of building products like this. I don't think he is trying to make a quick buck here, he's trying to offer the world quality products. He's also offering something else, a personal touch, which you won't get from other much larger companies.
The first batch of the DAC1 had the RCA mislabeled and he offered to sell me one at a reduced price. I took him up on the offer and unfortunately it was damaged in transit. Alan was quick to make sure things were right and made it so. First rate customer service. A product is more than what sits in front of you, it's also the company that stands behind it. Hopefully you won't need to experience customer service with anything you buy but it does happen, and when it does it tells you a lot about the company standing behind the product. I stand behind this product.
People have brought up price in other threads regarding his forthcoming product releases and he has plainly stated that he isn't interested in a race to the bottom. He's doing his own thing and he is sticking to it, I can appreciate that. Whether his dac is a value is a decision for each person to decide.
I have no idea what his profit margins are, quite frankly it's non of my business, but I believe he is operating close to it based on things Amir and others have stated about the costs of building products like this. I don't think he is trying to make a quick buck here, he's trying to offer the world quality products. He's also offering something else, a personal touch, which you won't get from other much larger companies.
The first batch of the DAC1 had the RCA mislabeled and he offered to sell me one at a reduced price. I took him up on the offer and unfortunately it was damaged in transit. Alan was quick to make sure things were right and made it so. First rate customer service. A product is more than what sits in front of you, it's also the company that stands behind it. Hopefully you won't need to experience customer service with anything you buy but it does happen, and when it does it tells you a lot about the company standing behind the product. I stand behind this product.
graz_lag
Major Contributor
The main issue with these CNCed aluminum cases is to get a consistent result from the anodizing process, not all blacks have the same level of black ...
The anodizing batch is made new basically every day, if the anodizing pools are big enough, one can get anodized the entire stock of cases, otherwise doing that thru different batches gets to some inconsistency in the finish ...
Yeah, the piece can be put thru the discoloration process and back into the anodizing pools ... but that's something you want to avoid ...
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Hats off to you sir!
I’ve had several ideas around IoT but never had the balls to follow through after the proof of concept phase - glad you have for your audio stuff
I used to be into car audio and used Genesis amps - designed and hand assembled in the UK. Whilst they cost a bit more (and sounded better) than the mass produced stuff like JL Audio you could see where the extra money went and their customer support was great. Shame they went bust but that was due to chi-fi and people’s changing needs and the market as a whole.
If you need a UK tester / distributor / courier let me know
I’ve had several ideas around IoT but never had the balls to follow through after the proof of concept phase - glad you have for your audio stuff
I used to be into car audio and used Genesis amps - designed and hand assembled in the UK. Whilst they cost a bit more (and sounded better) than the mass produced stuff like JL Audio you could see where the extra money went and their customer support was great. Shame they went bust but that was due to chi-fi and people’s changing needs and the market as a whole.
If you need a UK tester / distributor / courier let me know
graz_lag
Major Contributor
Multi-color anodizing cannot be be done on the same solid piece of alu ! You know that do not you ? Come on !
Headphonaholic
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I agree! The pink panthers are a nice touch!
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