Carver Raven 350 Review (Tube Amp)

[pma]

Please also note that technocratic believers will almost never participate in DBT tests. To me, technocratic believers are the same category as audiophools, just sitting on the opposite side, but with the similar prejudice.

 

[sergeauckland]

Please also note that technocratic believers will almost never participate in DBT tests. To me, technocratic believers are the same category as audiophools, just sitting on the opposite side, but with the similar prejudice.

One issue with DBT, whether technocrat or audiophool is that of perception or expectation bias. An audiophool may believe that everything makes a difference but a DBT causes too much stress, and anyway, it's an artificial way that's removed from the normal listening experience, so no point in taking a DBT, as I'll fail.

A 'Technocrat' (like me!) assumes that there is no difference unless the measurements indicate there should be, so my expectation bias is that I won't hear a difference, so I don't. Consequently, any DBT I take will come out as no more than guessing, as that's exactly what I would do.

A DBT works with a believer that's sufficiently open minded!

S.

 

[Dj7675]

Hard to believe something like this is opted for when a McIntosh MC275 exists, which seems to measure just fine. And it came out over 60 years ago...

McIntosh MC275 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

 

[GXAlan]

Hard to believe something like this is opted for when a McIntosh MC275 exists, which seems to measure just fine. And it came out over 60 years ago...

McIntosh MC275 power amplifier Measurements

Sidebar 3: Measurements

www.stereophile.com

Exactly.

The real question is if tube rolling in a design like that has measureable changes that would be expected to meet the threshold of audibility.

 

[sofrep811]

Awesome review as usual. I feel bad for the member that bought it.

Not sure I'd feel bad on this one. Most people when paying for an expensive tube amp should know it's not going to measure well. Some people like that void of nothing filled with something. I do sometimes but it can annoy me as well.

 

[pickyAudiophile]

Would like to learn about that nasty one's measured power consumption @idle to get a rough impression about the extent of flipping-the-bird decadency it flaunts.
BTW In my area it's equivalent to USD .35 per kilowatt-hour at this time. https://www.globalpetrolprices.com/electricity_prices for US see https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a

 

[fpitas]

To be honest it’s nearly impossible to tell distortion with most instruments because they’re so inherently distorted on their own. You need crisp vocals or maybe some loud subbass with a lot of high order harmonics.

Music with a lot of layers reveals intermod real quick. Everything smears together into a background hash.

 

[PierreV]

Reviewing a Carver amp looks a bit like tackling an old man in a wheelchair. In some ways, it feels wrong. But then, if the old man in the wheelchair is robbing banks, one doesn't have much choice I guess.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Please also note that technocratic believers will almost never participate in DBT tests. To me, technocratic believers are the same category as audiophools, just sitting on the opposite side, but with the similar prejudice.

It does seem like believers from either camp like to "gang up" on the opposite camp. Just to rub in how "foolish" the other camps beliefs are.....

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

It does seem like believers from either camp like to "gang up" on the opposite camp. Just to rub in how "foolish" the other camps beliefs are.....

Isn't that, the human condition Bob?
I appreciate, no politics here, but, stupid brexit has exactly shown that, in the UK.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Isn't that, the human condition Bob?
I appreciate, no politics here, but, stupid brexit has exactly shown that, in the UK.

Anytime a "simple" majority is able impose its will on a slightly less than that "simple" majority, there can be problems.

If everyone read "The Fifth Agreement" and actually thought about the material in that book.....

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www.amazon.com

 

[norcalscott]

Not all doctors/lawyers/CEOs are audiophools.

Just saying.

Certainly didn't mean to imply they are, but I know a few folks in these socioeconomic categories who want to spend their money on what they perceive to be the best products, and they don't have the time nor the desire to visit sites like this one. This Carver fiasco (both this unit and the 275) are in my opinion pure scams designed to prey on good people who just want to purchase a high quality solution. They are intentionally priced to be right at the edge of what someone would be willing to spend to get what they think will be a solid choice - exposing these things for what they are is a great service to the public in general.

 

[fordiebianco]

Certainly didn't mean to imply they are, but I know a few folks in these socioeconomic categories who want to spend their money on what they perceive to be the best products, and they don't have the time nor the desire to visit sites like this one. This Carver fiasco (both this unit and the 275) are in my opinion pure scams designed to prey on good people who just want to purchase a high quality solution. They are intentionally priced to be right at the edge of what someone would be willing to spend to get what they think will be a solid choice - exposing these things for what they are is a great service to the public in general.

I know what you mean. People walking into a dealership with their bonus wanting 'only the best'. Walks out with Wilson, dCS and enormous Audio Research Monoblocks.

 

[GXAlan]

I know what you mean. People walking into a dealership with their bonus wanting 'only the best'. Walks out with Wilson, dCS and enormous Audio Research Monoblocks.

At least with DCS, the measurements are good.

Wilson Audio is a bit up in the air.

Audio Research *should* sound good if paired with good tubes.

 

[Tks]

Man.. what the heck kinda bs is this? Like straight up, what were they thinking?

 

[fpitas]

Man.. what the heck kinda bs is this? Like straight up, what were they thinking?

Maybe it really is supposed to be special effects? Kind of hard to believe, but it does suck. Should have come with a Fuzz Depth pedal if that's where they were going.

 

[amirm]

Man.. what the heck kinda bs is this? Like straight up, what were they thinking?

I don't get it either as I know of Bob's reputation for solid state design, not tubes. When I asked him in person why he is designing tubes, he said because he likes it. And later read him saying that there is a lot less competition with tubes than transistors. The people buying it are seemingly doing so based on his reputation as an audio genius designer. How much he sells, I don't know. He is definitely not in the circle of "high-end" audio buyers.

 

[Jimster480]

One issue with DBT, whether technocrat or audiophool is that of perception or expectation bias. An audiophool may believe that everything makes a difference but a DBT causes too much stress, and anyway, it's an artificial way that's removed from the normal listening experience, so no point in taking a DBT, as I'll fail.

A 'Technocrat' (like me!) assumes that there is no difference unless the measurements indicate there should be, so my expectation bias is that I won't hear a difference, so I don't. Consequently, any DBT I take will come out as no more than guessing, as that's exactly what I would do.

A DBT works with a believer that's sufficiently open minded!

S.

I guess I can somewhat understand that rationale. I am open minded but I have also gone into A/B testing (not blinded) thinking that there would be no difference and actually finding one.

 

[amirm]

I guess I can somewhat understand that rationale. I am open minded but I have also gone into A/B testing (not blinded) thinking that there would be no difference and actually finding one.

That happens to me all the time. It is due to knowing there is a change and focusing to hear it. Once you do, you notice detail, air, etc. that your brain was ignoring before. With that preconditioning, when you go back to the other sample it "sounds worse." Blind testing eliminates this issue.

 

[DMill]

Certainly didn't mean to imply they are, but I know a few folks in these socioeconomic categories who want to spend their money on what they perceive to be the best products, and they don't have the time nor the desire to visit sites like this one. This Carver fiasco (both this unit and the 275) are in my opinion pure scams designed to prey on good people who just want to purchase a high quality solution. They are intentionally priced to be right at the edge of what someone would be willing to spend to get what they think will be a solid choice - exposing these things for what they are is a great service to the public in general.

This is interesting to me. Are noobs with big wallets buying a $9k pair of tube mono blocks from Carver? You almost have to be into gear a little bit to even know who Bob Carver is. The doctor/lawyer profile you mention i think would lean into McIntosh or a sick Yammy integrated. Something everyone has heard of. And then tubes on top of that. My guess is their clientele is tube loyalists who refuse to acknowledge measurements or feel that objective testing is flawed OR just have enough coin that they are just jewelry.