4K player purchase question

[sarumbear]

1. Poor network connection to my media room with no simple solution;
2. Relatively slow, somewhat unreliable internet connection in my rural'ish area so streaming is out;
3. NAS died a year or two ago and haven't been willing to fund a new one;
4. Don't have HW/SW and time to rip video discs;
5. Large collection of movies (~1000) and CDs/SACDs (unk, few thousand) so important to support legacy products.

Those are my main reasons, foolish or not - Don

Reasons 1&2 simply doesn’t exist in any other developed country. US is singular in low broadband penetration.

The others looks related to age and not wanting to catch with the times.

 

[LTig]

1. Poor network connection to my media room with no simple solution;
2. Relatively slow, somewhat unreliable internet connection in my rural'ish area so streaming is out;
3. NAS died a year or two ago and haven't been willing to fund a new one;
4. Don't have HW/SW and time to rip video discs;
5. Large collection of movies (~1000) and CDs/SACDs (unk, few thousand) so important to support legacy products.

Those are my main reasons, foolish or not - Don

6. Image quality on a big screen with BD is still better than streaming HD. Maybe not much longer though ...

 

[Deleted member 19122]

The thought of paying $600 for any disk spinner makes me a little queasy. I thought $500 for the old Oppo BDP-83 was excessive, though it was at the time the only SACD/DVD-A player that also spun Blu-Ray disks.

Why the urge to overspend for such a basic thing?

Wrong the Pioneer bdp-450,as well as a couple other bd series,plus they never lost the ability to play sacd-r..Still have a bdp-450 as it's handy to play discs because I've been lazy transferring my 3000 plus various mch sacd/dvd-a discs to hdd Just a clue for those who might still need a dirt cheap universal player.Its not just an Oppo world

 

[jhaider]

Wrong the Pioneer bdp-450,as well as a couple other bd series,

Not that it matters, but last time I checked 2009 was before ~2013.

Oppo BDP-83 Universal Blu-ray Player Bench Test Review Supplemental

Based on my bench tests and real world usage, the Oppo BDP-83 is everything everyone claims it to be. It’s easy to set-up, and plays back all of of the current formats via a single HDMI connection

www.audioholics.com

Home review

A superb Blu-ray player from Pioneer that challenges the best in class

www.whathifi.com

Interestingly I couldn’t quickly find a US review of the Pio. Maybe it was never sold here?

Regardless, if there was another DVD-A/SACD player that also played Blu-Rays when Oppo released BDP-83 - either I wasn’t aware of it or it was stupid expensive and thus irrelevant to me then (and now).

 

[sarumbear]

6. Image quality on a big screen with BD is still better than streaming HD. Maybe not much longer though ...

I’m not sure you can see the quality difference if the streaming is also in 4K and the data bandwidth is not throttled.

In the US Netflix often drops the data rates due to network limits. They used to publish that data for each country but I can’t locate it anymore. Here in the UK where we have almost 40% penetration of fibre to premises offering 1Gbps connections, Netflix streams upwards of 20Mbps.

The single frame compression is the same on both. It’s the intra frame changes that differ. Unless the action is extra fast and long duration, on a normal material you shouldn’t be seeing much difference.

Furthermore, HDR has progressed away and BR is stuck with HDR10.

 

[JeffS7444]

I rip CDs because I can realize a 50% space savings by saving as FLAC, and play back via high SINAD DAC of my choice (cheap).

But DVD/B-D/UHD rips are bulky, particularly if you want to preserve alternate soundtracks and extra features.

Streaming has it's limitations: There's much which isn't legally available to stream.

In the unlikely event that I encounter DVD-A or SACD, it might be easier for me to explore some way to rip these rather than invest in a compatible player.

If you already own a Playstation 5 or current Xbox with UHD drive, consider just using these rather than a specialized player. The main reason that I got a dedicated player is because I didn't think I could justify the purchase of another game console like PS5.

There's been some pretty iffy high-end disk player offerings over the years. I'm sure that the Panasonic is legit, but beyond that, odds are pretty good that you're getting a repackaged consumer model.

 

[Parametric]

6. Image quality on a big screen with BD is still better than streaming HD. Maybe not much longer though ...

7. Sounds quality...

 

[DonH56]

Reasons 1&2 simply doesn’t exist in any other developed country. US is singular in low broadband penetration.

The others looks related to age and not wanting to catch with the times.

Age, stupidity, ignorance, whatever you think... Also 80-hour workweeks and a plethora of other time and financial commitments more important to me. Understand not up to your standards, but them's my reasons.

YMMV - Don

 

[sarumbear]

Age, stupidity, ignorance, whatever you think... Also 80-hour workweeks and a plethora of other time and financial commitments more important to me. Understand not up to your standards, but them's my reasons.

YMMV - Don

I am sorry to hear the inhumane working hours. I hope you get compensated for that.

 

[MacCali]

So besides the types of media it can play, the question is what the rest of your system is? Are you going to use the analog outputs at all? Because:

This thing has totally horrible analog outputs. It barely has a 72 SINAD.

SNR != THD+N

SNR is signal to noise ratio, so the difference between noise floor and maximum output.

THD+N is the sum off distortion and noise. The species -94 dB is probably just what the chip can do. The measurements however show that the actual implementation is about 20 dB worse.

But none of this matters if your hooking the thing up to an AVR with an HDMI cable. Your AVR will probably do better than that.

Well like I said I would like a CD player as well, so when I use the cd player it will be using the analog outputs.

Seems like the reavon is crap so I will take your word for it

My TV is a samsung, so I wanted hdr10+ ability, but now I figure that doesn't make sense since there's no 10+ content. My TV is old, but it is a flagship, so I am considering that HDR optimizer to be beneficial vs the sony.

My AVR is a marantz 7013, it's not that good. However I am going to run it in premode and use external amps to get better sinad. Honestly if I just used the 8 ch analogs out I would probably get better performance.

Lastly, I do plan on eventually getting a AVM 70 at some point. So I figure why not get a great player too

@LTig Not sure what you mean by that, it does have room eq.

@DrStranger yes the AKM version is the one I want

@Laserjock Yes, and I did see comment #14/15, basically saying if you are going to run hdmi than it maybe pointless. The cd player is my reason why I want the 9000

@jhaider Honestly the only way I have seen movies is by streaming, and from my understanding the audio is crap from that. I really enjoy it coming from a sound bar to multich setup. However I am hoping I will get a more immersive experience with a quality player, or basically streaming is selling myself short. Also rather than buy a cd player just use it, I am certain you will all think it's a mistake but I got about 50 cd's give or take

Also, realistically with so many services I have for streaming they are all crap really. So many movies, yet none of them are really that interesting. To me it's just a bunch of fillers. Also I noticed every time I watch a movie the whole series is free, after watching one they want to charge me to watch the second or third movie. This has happened on numerous occasions

Clearly the point is to get better audio performance I assume @sarumbear Do I have this all wrong? I thought the audio quality is really crappy and it's compressed and file size is so small vs the actual BD

 

[Moravid]

Does the new AKM version measure any better?

 

[MacCali]

Age, stupidity, ignorance, whatever you think... Also 80-hour workweeks and a plethora of other time and financial commitments more important to me. Understand not up to your standards, but them's my reasons.

YMMV - Don

I am in the same boat, I work 70 hours a week. However I do make good earnings, and during covid I did not have any money besides unemployment and the money I had saved for almost 7 years. My entire audio collection was purchased during covid. Now that I have money I want to improve on what I already have, @jhaider is right that it's probably not wise to buy a high end player without a collection. I am just trying to start my collection now, and I do realize that's going to be additional investment

Currently my perspective is most cheap CD players, this is coming from someone who doesn't understand the measurements of a cd player very well; especially a transport. Which is what I was looking to purchase seems to be that they are pretty pricey, so lets say that the transport is 400, something which you guys find acceptable, in my mind that means this player is basically 600 dollars. Maybe the perspective will help understand why I am not really questioning spending so much. I was going to buy the reavon and that bastard is 1800 basically

If I buy the panasonic right now it's going to be a 1000, so I buy a transport hypothetically for 400 then buy the sony I am basically spending equal or close too the same as just buying one unit that does it all and I dont have to worry about the analog performance since the pana is doing fairly well for cd quality sound

 

[MacCali]

Does the new AKM version measure any better?

I dont think so, but the AKM version is the one that is measured by Amir. Some retailer was supposed to send him the ESS version for measure, but I guess that didn't happen.

But I mean we see the performance on the unit with an AKM and correct me if I am wrong it's not going to bottleneck the cd's performance. I will be able to get the maximum potential.

Honestly got nothing against the ESS, but I am pretty sure it's going to have the hump and beyond this I am an AKM fan boy. Prior to the AKM I enjoyed the BB, but I notice the AKM is better than the BB. I have owned the CL chip and ESS before too, this is why I say and clearly there are no more of these being produced so you got to buy what's left.

I got the D70s and absolutely love it, as well as the monoprice liquid platinum which has the 4499 chip

Now it's the p1k model, with the new dac

 

[jhaider]

Well like I said I would like a CD player as well, so when I use the cd player it will be using the analog outputs.

Why? There’s zero benefit and more cable clutter.

All that said there is one possible benefit to a stand-alone CD player - it will just play. With universals you may have to have the Tv on and go through a menu. $400 for such a player is crazy though. New ones may be expensive now because there’s no demand hence no production. Used ones will be adequate and should be very cheap.

 

[LTig]

Well like I said I would like a CD player as well, so when I use the cd player it will be using the analog outputs.

@LTig Not sure what you mean by that, it does have room eq.

Room EQ is done via DSP (digital signal processing) which means that an analog signal must be digitized first. In this case it makes more sense to feed the AVR via HDMI or SPDIF since then the signal does not need to run through the DAC in the player and the ADC in the AVR which degrades the signal quality.

 

[jhaider]

@jhaider Honestly the only way I have seen movies is by streaming, and from my understanding the audio is crap from that.

I disagree with that. If the audio is bad it’s system setup (likely setup, not equipment) to blame.

 

[DrStranger]

Well like I said I would like a CD player as well, so when I use the cd player it will be using the analog outputs.

Seems like the reavon is crap so I will take your word for it

My TV is a samsung, so I wanted hdr10+ ability, but now I figure that doesn't make sense since there's no 10+ content. My TV is old, but it is a flagship, so I am considering that HDR optimizer to be beneficial vs the sony.

My AVR is a marantz 7013, it's not that good. However I am going to run it in premode and use external amps to get better sinad. Honestly if I just used the 8 ch analogs out I would probably get better performance.

Lastly, I do plan on eventually getting a AVM 70 at some point. So I figure why not get a great player too

@LTig Not sure what you mean by that, it does have room eq.

@DrStranger yes the AKM version is the one I want

@Laserjock Yes, and I did see comment #14/15, basically saying if you are going to run hdmi than it maybe pointless. The cd player is my reason why I want the 9000

@jhaider Honestly the only way I have seen movies is by streaming, and from my understanding the audio is crap from that. I really enjoy it coming from a sound bar to multich setup. However I am hoping I will get a more immersive experience with a quality player, or basically streaming is selling myself short. Also rather than buy a cd player just use it, I am certain you will all think it's a mistake but I got about 50 cd's give or take

Also, realistically with so many services I have for streaming they are all crap really. So many movies, yet none of them are really that interesting. To me it's just a bunch of fillers. Also I noticed every time I watch a movie the whole series is free, after watching one they want to charge me to watch the second or third movie. This has happened on numerous occasions

Clearly the point is to get better audio performance I assume @sarumbear Do I have this all wrong? I thought the audio quality is really crappy and it's compressed and file size is so small vs the actual BD

I meant, what the AKM version was?

 

[sarumbear]

Clearly the point is to get better audio performance I assume @sarumbear Do I have this all wrong? I thought the audio quality is really crappy and it's compressed and file size is so small vs the actual BD

Netflix offers 640 kbps for 5.1 surround and 768 kbps for Dolby Atmos encoded movies. Both are pretty decent quality streams.

BR disk supports uncompressed 8 tracks, hence you can have 5.1 tracks as lossless, however Dolby Atmos requires more than 8-ch. That is why Dolby compress the audio using a Meridian "lossless" codec. How transparent that codec is, only God knows

It is highly unlikely that you sill hear artefacts in modern streaming, especially in a film sound track.

 

[cwatt]

MacCali, if not already done, I would recommend you visit AVSFORUM.COM regarding specific 4K player questions. There are dedicated blu-ray player forums for the Panny 9000 and Reavon players with considerable user feedback (positive and negative) and even some comparisons between the players from users who have owned several high end players. You are likely to get more useful feedback regarding these two players over there.

If you are not using the XLR or analog audio outputs or need the tone mapping/video processing features of these high end players, you might consider the next tier down. Someone suggested the Sony X800M2, which is a great player with solid construction.
The metal construction of the Panny 9000 and Reavon players and ability to stack other components on top of these players or their appearance might be of some value to you. Some die-hard users that play discs on a frequent basis see value in the construction of the top players versus the lower tier players and feel they will last longer.
Not sure what the Reavon X200 gives you at almost twice the cost of the Panny?

Have you considered the day-to-day usability of these players? I would recommend you purchase from a retailer with a good return policy if you do not like the unit.
As a disc player, things that might be important to you: info displayed on the front of the unit, info displayed on screen, handling of sub-titles if you watch foreign films (position on screen, size, colour), menu structure, startup time, noise/fan, ability to get back to the main menu, ability to control aspect ratio using dvd remote vs tv (for 4:3 material, your tv might be a pain to get through the menus), how easy is it to play CDs without the tv on? If you watch quite a few movies some of these things might be a deal breaker or irritant to you. If you scour AVSFORUM you will find users giving their feedback of some these aspects.

In terms of streaming Atmos audio (lossy) versus UHD audio (lossless), you will have to judge for yourself if you can hear the difference. Of course you will need the requisite Atmos audio system with x speakers. With streaming you also are at the mercy of the streaming platform as to what mix they use and that can change over time with rereleases. With discs, you typically get different soundtracks that you may not be able to get with the streaming service. If you can hear the difference in the DACs between the players you have incredible hearing! If you are connecting the player via HDMI or digital coax/toslink the player DAC is not important.

With movie discs you can also be assured you will have the same version you purchased when new. For movie nuts, having a particular release or theatrical release can be an important consideration. As for streaming, the movie can be a re-release or edited from the original version. This goes for both the video and audio.

In terms of playing CDs with a BDP, you are going to have to try that out and see if it works for you. A cd player will likely be faster to startup and be be much easier to control without requiring a tv/monitor.

 

[Zedly]

Discs also frequently include special features like commentaries, deleted scenes, behind-the-scenes documentaries, gag reels, etc. Those are almost never available via streaming.