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Genelec S360 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 5 1.6%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 9 2.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 111 35.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 184 59.5%

  • Total voters
    309

Purité Audio

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Depends upon construction of the room,
Placement within the room output of the sub measurement will show you exactly.
Keith
 

abdo123

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So, if I place my subwoofer offering 13-80 Hz +/-3dB in a non sealed 3x3 m room I can get....what, please?
If it's a ported subwoofer and these numbers are actual anechoic output not some random number the manufacturer provided then something like this

1659697877170.png
 

thewas

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Yeah but there are no speakers or subwoofers for that matter that would go flat to 1Hz, heck even 10Hz. And that’s an important distinction i feel because at the end of the day we’re talking about actual speakers and subwoofers not hypothetical scenarios that don’t really exist.
It is not a hypothetical scenario as thanks to the room gain, that you can place a real existing closed subwoofer dropping much earlier and get a linear bass response:

index.php


The much more reasonable BW 12dB/oct @35Hz graph clearly shows a increase in response in the modal region, which is more representative of actual reality.
That wasn't though what I criticised but his claim that the smaller the acoustic space is the less bass you have in it.
 

abdo123

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That wasn't though what I criticised but his claim that the smaller the acoustic space is the less bass you have in it.
You will have less bass below the modal region unless you have a magical woofer with no resonance frequency that can extend flat to 1Hz.

Here is how my BW 12db/oct @35Hz subwoofer measures in my small room, and here is how much i need to cut via DSP.

1659698433940.png


1659698455456.png
 

thewas

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You will have less bass below the modal region unless you have a magical woofer with no resonance frequency that can extend flat to 1Hz.
That doesn't necessarily need to be the case, just look again at the same example:

index.php

If you would do some some psy smoothing you would see that except the peak around 40 Hz the average level in the modal region above is very similar and in some regions even a bit lower than below. Depends of course on the -3dB point of the sub and the room size.
 

Tangband

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Buchardt wrote that?
Keith
Im not 100 % sure - it wasnt me who linked the text , but at 46 minutes in Darko:s blog about the Buchardt a700 the constructor says so , - theres no meaning to get the a700 because the low bass dont fit in the room of 3*3 meter. . He is absolutely right about that.
 

Tangband

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The text is not plainly wrong, i think you just misinterpreted it slightly.

if you consider the anechoic output + room gain of a speaker ‘low’ and +20 to +30dB room mode boost as ‘high’ then what was mentioned kind of makes sense.

You need a lot of displacement if you want to produce the lowest octave in a small room. Compared to the octave above it where the modes preside.
Absolutely right.
 

Tangband

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Some truth particularly when applied to displacement challenged speakers but not universally so, the below link is more thorough

http://www.cartchunk.org/audiotopics/SmallEnclBass.pdf

"The implications of this are important: below some frequency determined by the relationship between the wavelength at that frequency and the maximum dimensions of the room, the bass frequency performance of the speaker and room, considered as a system, is dependent only on the ability of the cone to compress the air, and is independent of frequency! The limit to producing sound level is simply determined by the ratio of the displacement volume of the woofer and the volume of the room."
Very good writing , it also shows that in small rooms, a closed box subwoofer is much better .
 
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Absolute

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I have the impression you are not talking about the same thing. Room gain and modes. However, this is more of a room acoustics topic.

Direct comparison of @Maiky76's EQs on both JBL 708p and Genelec S360:

To my eyes it appears that the Genelec is better engineered from the start, hence the lower gains, despite the on-axis response is violating a flat criteria (bass boost, regression).

I found this to be interesting, that Ilkka Rissanen tuned the speaker's tonality despite it being a "neutral" monitor. The waveguide demands this I suppose.
My experience with the M2 waveguide is that a constant directivity design benefits from a small downward slope, at least in normal listening rooms.
Looking at the measurements it would seem @Ilkka Rissanen have found the same.

Interestingly enough, JBL includes a -3 dB shelf centered at 8 khz in the home processors with the M2 tuning, and Charles Sprinkle himself said they usually placed a -1 dB shelf centered around 2 khz with the M2 when demoing in normal rooms to make the sound more balanced.

Anecdotes it might be, but it suggests that optimal frequency response might depend on dispersion characteristics and acoustics/distance.
I'd love to hear from Mr. Rissanen about his experience on this.
 

abdo123

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If you would do some some psy smoothing you would see that except the peak around 40 Hz the average level in the modal region above is very similar and in some regions even a bit lower than below.

It's interesting that you mentioned that because my EQ is actually based on psy smoothed data because i didn't want to introduce a high Q resonance to my subwoofers.

Here is what my measurement would look with psy smoothing, i hope this is convincing.

1659703263129.png
 

Tangband

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Here is interesting comparisons for Genelec 8350 and Genelec s360. The 8350 SAM speaker is a dsp 2-way loudspeaker with a conventional metal dome and a 8 inch woofer. The 8350 has a straighter frequency response, while the s360 can play louder.

C29D4FF3-32EC-49C3-9A2D-46E7E439A578.png61D7A9E7-AC36-415A-8866-7A3FAEEEC80D.png76CB20E1-E096-4BDF-8B1C-E37451F96FED.png4AD1C070-F020-4EA4-8085-51DA409FEC0C.png
 
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thewas

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It's interesting that you mentioned that because my EQ is actually based on psy smoothed data because i didn't want to introduce a high Q resonance to my subwoofers.

Here is what my measurement would look with psy smoothing, i hope this is convincing.
And as said this is just one individual case, as I showed above it can be different though.
 

Ra1zel

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I'm sure my subjective opinions won't have much value for most, but having heard many studio monitors (genelec, neumann, atc, adam, psi, geithan, pmc), I consistently like the sound of genelec main monitors more compared to their coaxial models, 1238A is my favorite. Quite different than common ASR narrative that wants you to praise the coaxial god. Then again I would rate KH420 and PSI A25 higher still. Either way we are speaking about absolute peak speakers with no higher tops to reach...

... well maybe custom stuff like those monitors made by French Amadeus Labs
Amadeus Be Monitor.png
 

brandall10

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The S360s can produce impressive sound levels and "throw" the music further than the 8351s and may be better at 8 meters plus than the 8361s.

Given these are priced the same as the 8351B... what would you say is the better speaker for home use at a distance of 4m?
 

Blockader

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Presuming they are still going in 20 or 30 years, it may be likely but it isn't a given, and how easy are Class D amps to service by anyone save the manufacturer?

I think kipman725 makes a fair point, there is less value for money in the higher end studio speakers. Some of this can be accounted for - fewer units sold, larger size (compared to their smaller monitors), higher tolerances, but they are still expensive compared to PA speakers. He is right that some of the difference is the amount the buyer expects to pay for any given speaker.

Genelec have a certain image of prestige to maintain. That requires having prices that, if anything, err towards higher rather than lower.

If you have the room, a pair of Hi-Fi and PA speakers could be purchased for the same price, or less than a pair of S360. Performance by either set of speakers wouldn't match the S360, but might get most of the way there and even best it in some aspects.

I'd still love to hear the S360. I think it may be more to my tastes than the Genelec coaxials. I imagine the character of the two speakers types is rather different and people will tend to prefer one or the other.
PA speakers prioritize high SPL and efficiency over smooth on-axis, off-axis response and sound power. Genelec S360 is one of the few speakers that can combine high SPL with high accuracy.
 

changer

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If the speaker is supposed to cover peaks within its max SPL, it is required.

There is more trade-offs than distortion with a midfield speaker however: the narrower pattern is good at longer distances, but when it is used closer to the LP, the size of the image is relatively small. A wider pattern might be more desirable in this case.
 
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