Chord GroundARAY Review (Noise Filter?)

[SIY]

SIY's Law: The less a product actually does, the longer the thread about it.

 

[SIY]

Empirical evidence gets neglected.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

 

[Lambda]

It is not. It only has one connector. Nothing comes out of it.

What?!
That's even more stupid!

 

[AudioSceptic]

In contrast to this almost namesake, Rob Watts´ Chord appears almost like a serious company!

There is no "Rob Watts' Chord". Chord Electronics is owned by John Franks. Rob Watts is Consultant Digital Designer.

Edit: this has to be repeated so many times that perhaps some photos might help!
<https://chordelectronics.co.uk/our-team>

 

[AudioSceptic]

Oh ... you are correct. I just watched the whole video now. That idea is pretty odd. Although the marketing is quite clever. Take home a few expensive pieces of my nice looking snake oil. Add them to your system and if you think there are improvements you can keep them and pay me $795 USD for each. Of course I have nothing to lose and a lot to gain since the snake oil is actually only worth $5. (the value of the shiny aluminium and the connector)

Would the parts cost even reach $1?

 

[BDWoody]

If ten different people say there are, they hear, differences, as a scientist, you'd ask why is that!?!?

I'd ask for evidence first. Claims aren't evidence.

The devices do not sound the same. People keep buying new stuff.

Too often based on ignorance.

 

[JSmith]

If ten different people say there are, they hear, differences, as a scientist, you'd ask why is that!?!?
Even if one out of hundred says he experienced a difference it shouldn't be neglected. That's what science is all about.

Sorry, but this is factually incorrect... we know very well why a difference is heard between similarly measuring DAC's and it's nothing to do with the device, it's the human. If you're truly interested in the science behind it, dig around the forum and find out why.


JSmith

 

[fpitas]

I am actually pretty serious about that.

Amir and this site implies a "scientific" approach. It's not. What's being offered are basic measurements.
Empirical evidence gets neglected. As well as e.g. Audio Precision statements about its equipment limitations.
And as mentioned, there are procedural flaws.

Since years Amir generates measurements of audio devices, DACs in particular, showing flaws beyond
audible thresholds. If you'd follow Amirs (and his followers) logic: "all DuTs therefore sound the same",
it would basically imply there'd be no reason for having this forum at all anymore.

Yet. That's simply not the case. The devices do not sound the same. People keep buying new stuff.

All I am saying. You better be careful not to drift into an ideological direction.

If ten different people say there are, they hear, differences, as a scientist, you'd ask why is that!?!?
Even if one out of hundred says he experienced a difference it shouldn't be neglected. That's what science is all about.
Otherwise we'd still living in caves.

And you bet. Amir is well aware of it!

Enjoy.

Not sure if serious.

In any event, these things didn't hurt anything. That's surely worth the money.

 

[Triliza]

Can some network fellow explain to me how this device is working, in theory and assuming it does what it says. I'm trying to wrap my head around it and I am in the dark. Theoretically, the data/signal/information (whatever the right term is) would enter this device that is attached to an ethernet port. It would go through some (passive?) filtering, reducing noise (lets assume that happens), and then what? Go back into the network (I'll bet there is no close circuit inside the device, thus doing nothing at all), how will these data reach the target (dac or whatever)? Please elaborate.

 

[fpitas]

Can some network fellow explain to me how this device is working, in theory and assuming it does what it says. I'm trying to wrap my head around it and I am in the dark. Theoretically, the data/signal/information (whatever the right term is) would enter this device that is attached to an ethernet port. It would go through some (passive?) filtering, reducing noise (lets assume that happens), and then what? Go back into the network (I'll bet there is no close circuit inside the device, thus doing nothing at all), how will these data reach the target (dac or whatever)? Please elaborate.

I think True Belief, and the efficacious effects of the application of the finest Snake Oil, is at work here.

 

[Miiksuli]

No. It's 800$ a metal plug

 

[Ken Tajalli]

If snake-oil works, is it still snake-oil ?
That is a question!

The placebo effect: Amazing and real - Harvard Health

...

www.health.harvard.edu

 

[fpitas]

If snake-oil works, is it still snake-oil ?
That is a question!

The placebo effect: Amazing and real - Harvard Health

...

www.health.harvard.edu

View attachment 222547

 

[Ken Tajalli]

SIY's Law: The less a product actually does, the longer the thread about it.

Does that include religion?
No, no don't answer that, it would be blasphemy!

 

[sarumbear]

My memory is not what it used to be.
But this is from a Naim amp manual .

View attachment 222443

How do you think NAIM became so successful and Julian a multi-millionaire? By upselling, that's how... At least he was not selling things that didn't work (however, that directional cable bit is cringing)

 

[sarumbear]

You'd better be careful slating a product based on IMO inadequate tests. That I'd consider pretty unprofessional
and "NON-SCIENTIFIC". (I am an engineer myself btw.)

May I suggest to go back to your alma mater and ask your money back.

 

[TrevC]

Dear Amir.

You did it again. (I've seen your quite similar verdicts on USB filters)

If you measure and qualify noise filters, please measure the noise reduction and potential impact right after the filter.
If you measure the DAC output you simply can't judge the filter performance alone.
You'd judge the DAC AND the filter combined. And today's DACs do filter a lot on their own.
Beside that noise sources, ground loops etc. can impact an entire system. Not just the DAC.

You'd better be careful slating a product based on IMO inadequate tests. That I'd consider pretty unprofessional
and "NON-SCIENTIFIC". (I am an engineer myself btw.)

Your listening tests, as subjective as they are, add nothing to the whole subject. Let alone all the "audiophile" bashing.
You know best that the manufacturer of your measurement equipment clearly admitted and explained the limitations
of its results (Youtube video and you being present!) when it comes to the audible performance of a system.

And using tools like that DeltaWave also measures after the DAC. It also simply won't help to measure and review
a filter alone.


I do appreciate all your measurements - if done right.


SC

What do you think these things could possibly do?

 

[sarumbear]

This is what I think of when I see ARAY
It is the old Soviet Duga radar array in Ukraine, really cool.

View attachment 222530

This is an antennae "array" not an ARAY (with one r). Maybe Chord is using an acronym as the letters are all capitals?

Not that it changes anything...

 

[Lambda]

What do you think these things could possibly do?

Nothing. We know this because we have some understanding about how digital audio /network works.

To stay with the water filter analogy.

Fist you test if you can detect/resolve any trace amounts of contamination. If you have them and you can Measure them then you can add a filter to test if it improves it.

but if you don't have contamination or it's below what you can resolve you can't make meaningful test of the filter.
You can only say in this particular cases the filter is not needed.

The DAC was not influenced by the "noise" from the network or there was no "noise" or the test was not Abel to resolve it.
So if the claim is it "filters noise" this was not tested.
But we still know it’s not.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

How do you think NAIM became so successful and Julian a multi-millionaire? By upselling, that's how... At least he was not selling things that didn't work (however, that directional cable bit is cringing)

I wouldn't know about the upselling bit.
But in 70s and 80s, Naim amps almost had no peer, sure there were good amps about, but I did not know any amps that could happily drive low impedance loads, such as the Isobariks (e.g. Meridian couldn't). And sound good.
The issue with cable, was AFAIK, had something to do with the feedback and possibly oscillation. They needed a min. inductance from cables and low capacitance, hence the use of specific cable types and lengths.
In 80's there was abit of pseudo-science going on regarding the use of annealing and long crystal OFCC cables that were sided, because of the crystal formation, but then people connected them the wrong way, and no one was any wiser!