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Heard a Revel and JBL Synthesis for the first time: F208, F228Be, 4367. A surprise for sure!

Bugal1998

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Since sighted bias has come up, I'll just put this out there...

If I discovered I could subjectively--and persistently--improve my listening experience with visual stimuli, I would do it, and I wouldn't apologize.

I'd never claim my speaker was objectively better, but if the system with the right visual stimuli was more enjoyable, then I'd 100% embrace the illusion and the enjoyment it enabled.
 

GXAlan

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Since sighted bias has come up, I'll just put this out there...

If I discovered I could subjectively--and persistently--improve my listening experience with visual stimuli, I would do it, and I wouldn't apologize.

I'd never claim my speaker was objectively better, but if the system with the right visual stimuli was more enjoyable, then I'd 100% embrace the illusion and the enjoyment it enabled.

100% the truth. McIntosh meters, McIntosh Oscilloscopes (MI-3 and MI-4) are nice examples of visual stimuli that can enhance the listening experience.

 

rwortman

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How many people bring a blindfold when they go to an audio store to shop for speakers?
 

krabapple

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Sighted non level matched speaker eval produces subjective review verbiage of highly questionable applicability or utility.

Alert the media?
 

Astoneroad

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How many people believe that what they hear (and see) in the store will be what they hear at home?
2 out of 3

77_750x750_Front_Color-NA.jpg
 

rwortman

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How many people believe that what they hear (and see) in the store will be what they hear at home?
I don’t know. We have to make our decisions somehow and stores that do in home auditions are rare. You can order on line and pay to send them back but that can be expensive. I bought my speaker without listening to them first. I bought a brand I trust and was not disappointed.
 

Laserjock

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The other day I want to my local Revel dealer, US Tube Audio in Scottsdale, AZ

I was able to listen to the F208, F228Be, and the JBL 4367.

I thought I'd share my impressions.

F208: Sounded fine to me, good low end, midrange sounded natural, top end was nice, over all nothing special.
F228Be: Sounded better to me, less low end but more defined maybe, midrange the same, top end seemed more defined to me. Most likely as a result of the Be tweeter?

So, I wasn't super impressed with either, not to point where I was willing to pull out my wallet. I thought it might just be a crappy room.

Next up the JBL 4367. From the moment the music started my jaw was on the floor. Everything sounded real, alive, in the room. The acoustic guitars, clarinets vocals, you name it sounded amazing, accurate, and life like. Bass was amazing and tactile. It ran circles around the Revels while still having great tone, clarity and smoothness.

Unfortunately, they were out of F328Be and Salon2 so I couldn't compare.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it the horn loaded compression driver that is crossed over at 700 Hz that gives it the life like sound? The high sensitivity? Both? I'm curious but I've got to know at this point as I've got to have speakers that do this, but I can't afford the $16k!

Thoughts?

Paul
What are your current speakers and listening environment?
 

Jbrunwa

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These JBL speakers remind me of the JBL pro horns and woofers that we used when I played in a rock band in the 70's. Ours were separates and driven with separate amps through an active crossover though. Back then you either liked the JBL, Altec, or Electrovoice sound. I guess it's not much different today. I'm sure these have that signature JBL "live" sound.
 

Digby

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how many close their eyes when chopping an onion? that I would be more impressed by.
 

Newman

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Classical orchestral or opera are difficult to get right with horns, and it is something I've struggled to get right. … Expecting a large horn speaker such as a Klipsch or JBL to sound right with something like an opera is just not going to happen most of the time unless you're lucky. Classical recordings vary widely, especially in the pickup of the violins which can sound strident even with a conventional speaker, but especially with an aggressively midrange-forward voiced horn, and that typifies Klipsch, JBL and others I'm sure.
horns haven't progressed as much as much as you seem to think - the problems are still there and there isn't a silver bullet to solve them; the weaknesses can only be minimized. Some are better than others, but they're still horns and play by different rules than conventional speakers. Realizing this and designing accordingly can yield spectacular results, but those JBLs are just not voiced with classical music in mind, and considering what a vanishingly small percentage of people listen to classical music, I would agree with JBLs choice to assume classical music listeners will buy something other than a horn.
…In my experience, horn systems are far more sensitive to music type and to the balance of particular recordings than conventional cone 'n dome speakers which tend to be very forgiving. Not so with horns which reveal everything. The newest horns I've heard haven't changed that view. Again I need to stress that what I'm saying has to do with classical music reproduction only.
Well, the blind M2 vs Salon2 comparison for the single-speaker (most discriminating) section of 13 music selections, was 40% classical. Yet the participants tended to be surprised when it was revealed which one they were listening to at which time.

Your comments are IMHO either sighted bias, or outdated (denials notwithstanding).
 

woofersus

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Three well-engineered speakers have some differences and your preferences are your own. I wouldn't overthink it.

It's not like you think you heard a big difference because of some wires or other voodoo.
 

Newman

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IMHO, horns have a special magic.
No, unless you mean they have a special tendency to sound coloured and shouty.
They're tough to design with, hard to get right, and expensive if you expect the best sound.
Agreed. You have to beat their ‘special magic’ tendencies out of them.
But some of us crazy fools love them.
Count me as one such fool. But not crazy enough to do anything other than reject 95% of horn speakers, including all the famed ‘classics’ and ’legends’.
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Well, the blind M2 vs Salon2 comparison for the single-speaker (most discriminating) section of 13 music selections, was 40% classical. Yet the participants tended to be surprised when it was revealed which one they were listening to at which time.

Your comments are IMHO either sighted bias, or outdated (denials notwithstanding).
Your response is noted.
 

Newman

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Cool. Evidence bites.
 

fpitas

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No, unless you mean they have a special tendency to sound coloured and shouty.

Agreed. You have to beat their ‘special magic’ tendencies out of them.

Count me as one such fool. But not crazy enough to do anything other than reject 95% of horn speakers, including all the famed ‘classics’ and ’legends’.
Obviously I'm an idiot, since I disagree with you. What is it about horns that brings out this kind of rudeness?
 

MakeMineVinyl

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Obviously I'm an idiot, since I disagree with you. What is it about horns that brings out this kind of rudeness?
He once saw someone playing vinyl through a horn. :confused:
 

fpitas

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