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Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

Rate this DAC & HP Amp

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 294 60.7%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 120 24.8%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 46 9.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 24 5.0%

  • Total voters
    484

Jimster480

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Apparently the APx555 is the bottleneck here;

:facepalm:


JSmith
What kind of nonsense is this LOL

I don't agree. Until I discovered ASR, I honestly believed that a £20,000 hifi item would "sound" superior, to a far cheaper equivalent.
Aren't you glad that you discovered asr? So much money to be saved and spent on other better equipment. Or even music if you are so inclined
 

AudioSceptic

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I don't agree. Until I discovered ASR, I honestly believed that a £20,000 hifi item would "sound" superior, to a far cheaper equivalent.
Doesn't most of the "audiophile" market believe this? Why else does the whole High End exist? Just look at what *still* gets rave reviews at Stereophile and Hi-Fi+. Just for a sample, scroll through this list <https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2022-edition-digital-processors> There's some sensible stuff in there, but a lot is overpriced and underperforming (if not in absolute terms, certainly relative to price).
 

Angsty

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Anytime there is supposedly no analytical instrument that can measure the objective reality of an electronic component and the reality can only be discerned by “the golden ear”…

Watch your wallet; the fertilizer being laid for your cash to picked later.
 

Angsty

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Doesn't most of the "audiophile" market believe this? Why else does the whole High End exist? Just look at what *still* gets rave reviews at Stereophile and Hi-Fi+. Just for a sample, scroll through this list <https://www.stereophile.com/content/recommended-components-2022-edition-digital-processors> There's some sensible stuff in there, but a lot is overpriced and underperforming (if not in absolute terms, certainly relative to price).
People will spend what they have to get what they want. Regardless of if it’s $140 or $14,000, if it’s disposable income, people will spend it. The notion of “overpriced” is only relative to what price you can afford. There are a lot of people in this world for whom spending $14K on a DAC represents no hardship even if there are cheaper and better performing solutions. This is how high-end audio survives.

It’s a forum like ASR that serves to expose the “underperforming” side of the matter, for which many people lack the training and/or instrumentation to resolve for themselves.
 

Angsty

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That can be the case for speakers though but not much else.
And there are also some pretty awful speakers selling for 20,000+, too.

 

DavidEdwinAston

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People will spend what they have to get what they want. Regardless of if it’s $140 or $14,000, if it’s disposable income, people will spend it. The notion of “overpriced” is only relative to what price you can afford. There are a lot of people in this world for whom spending $14K on a DAC represents no hardship even if there are cheaper and better performing solutions. This is how high-end audio survives.

It’s a forum like ASR that serves to expose the “underperforming” side of the matter, for which many people lack the training and/or instrumentation to resolve for themselves.
I wish they would spend their disposable income on charity, rather than wasting it on hi-fi which they can equal on performance, for moderately small amounts of disposable income.
 

Angsty

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I wish they would spend their disposable income on charity, rather than wasting it on hi-fi which they can equal on performance, for moderately small amounts of disposable income.
I agree, but the same could be said for spending $1400 vs $140. We could all likely afford to be more charitable.
 

DonR

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And there are also some pretty awful speakers selling for 20,000+, too.

Yes there are. Definitely need to tread carefully there. Unfortunately, I think speakers are often chosen on looks above measurements and even sound. Having said that, it remains the one area, along with room treatment, that spending money on can make a big difference.
 

AudioSceptic

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People will spend what they have to get what they want. Regardless of if it’s $140 or $14,000, if it’s disposable income, people will spend it. The notion of “overpriced” is only relative to what price you can afford. There are a lot of people in this world for whom spending $14K on a DAC represents no hardship even if there are cheaper and better performing solutions. This is how high-end audio survives.

It’s a forum like ASR that serves to expose the “underperforming” side of the matter, for which many people lack the training and/or instrumentation to resolve for themselves.
This is where it gets tricky. Why does the person spending $14k want or think they need that item? What tells them that? Why this one and not that one? I could spend that sort of money but I just can't imagine it would be worth it, and I've thought this way for much longer than I've been reading ASR (and Archimago). This comes from not only thinking that I almost certainly couldn't tell the difference once you get much past the competent level, but also knowing that a lot of subjective favourites are actually inferior performers. A while back (it might be 30 years ago) Bob Carver was able to make his reasonably priced amp sound enough like a "high end" C-J pre-power that the "expert" listeners at Stereophile couldn't tell them apart. Things like that make you sceptical, or even cynical, about the whole industry.
 

Angsty

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This is where it gets tricky. Why does the person spending $14k want or think they need that item? What tells them that? Why this one and not that one? I could spend that sort of money but I just can't imagine it would be worth it, and I've thought this way for much longer than I've been reading ASR (and Archimago). This comes from not only thinking that I almost certainly couldn't tell the difference once you get much past the competent level, but also knowing that a lot of subjective favourites are actually inferior performers. A while back (it might be 30 years ago) Bob Carver was able to make his reasonably priced amp sound enough like a "high end" C-J pre-power that the "expert" listeners at Stereophile couldn't tell them apart. Things like that make you sceptical, or even cynical, about the whole industry.
Skepticism is warranted when someone wants your money.

People gravitate toward stories and I think that Rob Watts had a *great* story for why his DACs were better. His reconstruction filters do a better job at brickwalling frequencies above 20kHz than any others I have seen. However, that does not yield the audible benefit that he proffers nor does it address other performance discrepancies that might be more problematic. That’s were the story gets facts conflated to myths.

Here you are paying thousands of dollars more for a story that’s appealing versus being demonstrably practical. But, that is the story of the high-end in general.
 

mansr

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People gravitate toward stories and I think that Rob Watts had a *great* story for why his DACs were better. His reconstruction filters do a better job at brickwalling frequencies above 20kHz than any others I have seen. However, that does not yield the audible benefit that he proffers nor does it address other performance discrepancies that might be more problematic.
They do a better job in a narrow band (1 kHz or so) around the Nyquist frequency. The difference is inaudible for the simple reason that this band is outside the audible frequency range.
 

Jimster480

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Anytime there is supposedly no analytical instrument that can measure the objective reality of an electronic component and the reality can only be discerned by “the golden ear”…

Watch your wallet; the fertilizer being laid for your cash to picked later.
Of course, it should be obvious since these are literally electrical components designed on scientific principals.
I agree, but the same could be said for spending $1400 vs $140. We could all likely afford to be more charitable.
What if you are already charitable? Just a question, who is to say how any other person should spend their money? Even if it is pointless to waste it on snake oil hifi.
Skepticism is warranted when someone wants your money.

People gravitate toward stories and I think that Rob Watts had a *great* story for why his DACs were better. His reconstruction filters do a better job at brickwalling frequencies above 20kHz than any others I have seen. However, that does not yield the audible benefit that he proffers nor does it address other performance discrepancies that might be more problematic. That’s were the story gets facts conflated to myths.

Here you are paying thousands of dollars more for a story that’s appealing versus being demonstrably practical. But, that is the story of the high-end in general.
You are right, marketing stories sucker people. I've seen it time and time again. I was just watching this with Intel and them suckering people over their garbage GPU's they are trying to launch. People in comments on the videos literally considering spending money on GPUs that barely work.
 

AudioSceptic

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They do a better job in a narrow band (1 kHz or so) around the Nyquist frequency. The difference is inaudible for the simple reason that this band is outside the audible frequency range.
Amir's chart doesn't show enough resolution, but GoldenSound's shows that even this just misses the mark. It's only just started by Nyquist and doesn't reach full attenuation until past 22.1. In practice it probably doesn't matter much, but any idea why they didn't get it exactly right when they have the means with such a fantastically steep filter? <https://goldensound.audio/2022/03/14/chord-dave-measurements-with-mscaler/>
 

brandall10

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To be honest as a lover of art, the Mona Lisa was one of the most disappointing pictures I have ever seen, small, dark, just an enigmatic smile that’s it , and some puffy hands, give me a Vermeer of that any day to look at , actually as a painter Leonardo is very overhyped , his drawings are way better ;)

I was a little surprised to find that while it has always been historically notable for innovations in portrait rendering, its status as being the world's most important painting was simply because it was stolen just over a century ago. Its recovery created intense interest by the public which has lasted to its day. It's famous for being famous rather than being truly great and your reaction seems to be rather common.
 

Trell

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I was a little surprised to find that while it was historically notable, its status as being the world's most important painting was simply because it was stolen just over a century ago which created intense interest in it which has lasted to this day.

Not quite simple as that but I do get your point that something outside their art is needed for recognition.
 

mansr

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Amir's chart doesn't show enough resolution, but GoldenSound's shows that even this just misses the mark. It's only just started by Nyquist and doesn't reach full attenuation until past 22.1. In practice it probably doesn't matter much, but any idea why they didn't get it exactly right when they have the means with such a fantastically steep filter? <https://goldensound.audio/2022/03/14/chord-dave-measurements-with-mscaler/>
There's something odd-looking about GoldenSound's plots. Usually, the kind of slope seen there is indicative of filter overload, which isn't uncommon with high-level white noise as input. With many DACs, a white noise signal needs to be lowered by at least 3 dB to avoid this.
 

AudioSceptic

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There's something odd-looking about GoldenSound's plots. Usually, the kind of slope seen there is indicative of filter overload, which isn't uncommon with high-level white noise as input. With many DACs, a white noise signal needs to be lowered by at least 3 dB to avoid this.
So, you think it might be false because of overload? Isn't the white noise down at -60 dB, or am I misreading all this?
 

brandall10

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This is where it gets tricky. Why does the person spending $14k want or think they need that item? What tells them that? Why this one and not that one?
As a member of head-fi for nearly 2 decades now, even going to far to host a mid-sized meet, it's a bit like boiling a frog.

When that forum group-think hits a high note, you believe that what you're getting is superlative and will do what it takes, within reason, to get it. When you spend hours every week poring over discussion threads for things you have an interest in, hearing how much some piece of audio equipment sets a new bar, it unlocks something in your brain.

As much as $14k is, there were oodles of folks I met over the years at meets with collections way in excess of that. And they weren't rich or anything, mostly dorky software devs that were super deep down the rabbit hole where this was by far their primary hobby and outlet to socialize.
 

AudioSceptic

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As a member of head-fi for nearly 2 decades now, even going to far to host a mid-sized meet, it's a bit like boiling a frog.

When that forum group-think hits a high note, you believe that what you're getting is superlative and will do what it takes, within reason, to get it. When you spend hours every week poring over discussion threads for things you have an interest in, hearing how much some piece of audio equipment sets a new bar, it unlocks something in your brain.

As much as $14k is, there were oodles of folks I met over the years at meets with collections way in excess of that. And they weren't rich or anything, mostly dorky software devs that were super deep down the rabbit hole where this was by far their primary hobby and outlet to socialize.
Thanks, but that quote is mine, not Trell's.
 
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