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Topping E30 II DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 14 4.3%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 22 6.8%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 103 31.7%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 186 57.2%

  • Total voters
    325

Robbo99999

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The video, a rant really, was weird but possible usability issues with the overly directional remote, buttons usage, random power on when in standby, are good points.

Labelling amirm as a "bad faith actor" is way over the top, though:

View attachment 221273
The remote is the worst thing about my E30, it doesn't drive me up the wall, but I do have to be in the right position to use it, it's not like I can just sit on my couch and casually point it at the device. That's the only problem with the E30 in my experience, it's a good product, and the ability to use it as a preamp is crucial.
 

Bleib

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The remote is the worst thing about my E30, it doesn't drive me up the wall, but I do have to be in the right position to use it, it's not like I can just sit on my couch and casually point it at the device. That's the only problem with the E30 in my experience, it's a good product, and the ability to use it as a preamp is crucial.
This is why I switched to SMSL. I still have a DX3 Pro+ but that's on the desktop so no need to use the remote.
 

srkbear

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Extraordinary specs for a “budget” range DAC—although I think Topping is truly frying the predatory pricers in the industry with sunshine by demonstrating what costs are really required to produce a high performing digital converter. No nonsense about ascribing any “sound signature” or “soundstage” to the function this component performs in the signal path.

Also nice to see the performance specs of one of AKM’s comeback chips—this AK4493s being a successor to their previous AK4493 that perished in the fire. I’m not sure what to make of their new “Velvet Sound” descriptor in their refreshed product line, but it’s exciting to see that they’re emphasizing top notch performance for affordable implementations. I’m looking forward to seeing what they have in store to compete with the current unchallenged TOTL ES9038pro.

It’s amazing that young’uns have access to such a glorious system in the E30 II/L30 II combo for just $300–I’m sure jealous I didn’t have access to anything comparable when I was a kid.

 

srkbear

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I don't see this as a better E30, more of a relaunch. I'm glad I have the original with AK4118.

Here's another good wall wart you can use with it https://allo.com/sparky/5v-power-supply.html
Other than an inaudible 5 point bump in SINAD, you’re probably right that this isn’t worth “upgrading” to if you already own the original E30. But since the AK4118’s ship has sailed, I’m happy to see AKM returning to the game, producing top notch chips that can be employed in accessibly priced DACs for those on a budget (e.g. kids)!
 

srkbear

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The remote is the worst thing about my E30, it doesn't drive me up the wall, but I do have to be in the right position to use it, it's not like I can just sit on my couch and casually point it at the device. That's the only problem with the E30 in my experience, it's a good product, and the ability to use it as a preamp is crucial.
That’s why I love Roon! The only remote I need is my phone…:)
 

Jan.P.Ho

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I have an E30 (CS8416) and just bought an used ak4118 version and ordered the E30 ii to make a comparison of my own.

As I have a streamer with very good spdif output I am not concerned about compatibility, but performance.


I have not seen any pictures of the E30 ii yet, so I don’t know how they implemented the new spdif circuit.
The following is (speculative) about the E30 version I pre and post update by looking at the boards: (please correct me if I’m wrong!)

The I2S and MCLK from XMOS and respectively the spdif receiver both go through the TI SN74AHC244 octal buffer. The buffer outputs (i2s lines and mclk lines) of XMOS and spdif receiver are tied together, but which outputs are enabled is decided by uC - so only one i2s and mclk is fed to ak4493…
That means, the spdif receiver that has a better clock recovery from incoming spdif signal will make for a “better” mclk signal to feed the ak4493.
I have not yet seen any jitter performance of either the spdif receivers…

My guess is: in the D70 and D90 the i2s signals from spdif receiver are re-clocked in the altera MAXii CPLD to the onboard clocks. I would rather have used an FPGA instead but …
Real jitter and phase noise measurements of the mclk signal directly at the DAC chip in these different implementations would be very interesting.

I am curious how the three E30 compare to each other when driven by very good spdif signal input.
 

srkbear

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I have an E30 (CS8416) and just bought an used ak4118 version and ordered the E30 ii to make a comparison of my own.

As I have a streamer with very good spdif output I am not concerned about compatibility, but performance.


I have not seen any pictures of the E30 ii yet, so I don’t know how they implemented the new spdif circuit.
The following is (speculative) about the E30 version I pre and post update by looking at the boards: (please correct me if I’m wrong!)

The I2S and MCLK from XMOS and respectively the spdif receiver both go through the TI SN74AHC244 octal buffer. The buffer outputs (i2s lines and mclk lines) of XMOS and spdif receiver are tied together, but which outputs are enabled is decided by uC - so only one i2s and mclk is fed to ak4493…
That means, the spdif receiver that has a better clock recovery from incoming spdif signal will make for a “better” mclk signal to feed the ak4493.
I have not yet seen any jitter performance of either the spdif receivers…

My guess is: in the D70 and D90 the i2s signals from spdif receiver are re-clocked in the altera MAXii CPLD to the onboard clocks. I would rather have used an FPGA instead but …
Real jitter and phase noise measurements of the mclk signal directly at the DAC chip in these different implementations would be very interesting.

I am curious how the three E30 compare to each other when driven by very good spdif signal input.
How do you plan on comparing the two? There are already measurements of each available on this site…
 

Veri

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How do you plan on comparing the two? There are already measurements of each available on this site…
Well he could just try the receiver of all 3 and check break-ups etc, but if he's going to use a "very good" source, indeed I don't see what he'll accomplish having all 3 side by side.. ;)
 

Robbo99999

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This is why I switched to SMSL. I still have a DX3 Pro+ but that's on the desktop so no need to use the remote.
Topping could probably do with sorting out the remote, improving it's useable angles, seeing as it even drove you away from them and to a competitor.
That’s why I love Roon! The only remote I need is my phone…:)
Good idea, I'd still like Topping to improve the usable angles on their remotes though.
 

respice finem

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Topping could probably do with sorting out the remote, improving it's useable angles, seeing as it even drove you away from them and to a competitor.

Good idea, I'd still like Topping to improve the usable angles on their remotes though.
Yes. For many (if not most) users, the quality of the remote is very important, because they hardly touch the device itself (as a TV for example). A good remote can be produced in a cost effective way, as the Amazon "Fire TV Stick 4k" remote. Angle no issue, standard batteries or eneloops, defined pressure point instead of gunky buttons, several meters range etc. Its only sin is the battery cover sliding open too lightly.
 

Saponetto

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I use the same remote for E30, D30Pro and D70 and never, never had aiming problems at all...
Could the problem be environmental, or related on the location of the device?
 

srkbear

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Well he could just try the receiver of all 3 and check break-ups etc, but if he's going to use a "very good" source, indeed I don't see what he'll accomplish having all 3 side by side.. ;)
To me this iteration of the E30 was never meant to really be an “improvement” so much as a continuation of a top-selling product that was thwarted by the loss of the AK4118.

Most other brands, including Topping, have coped with the loss of access to AKM chips by releasing new versions of existing products with ESS versions (such as the D90se). I think it’s neat that Topping opted to support AKM’s efforts to get back in the game—and from the specs of this unit it appears that they’re coming back as strong as ever!
 

srkbear

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I use the same remote for E30, D30Pro and D70 and never, never had aiming problems at all...
Could the problem be environmental, or related on the location of the device?
Although I never use it, the remote for my D90se has always worked fine too—although there’s not much it can do. I do agree that Topping doesn’t seem to emphasize their remote capabilities—perhaps something to reduce manufacturing costs in favor of maintaining affordable price points? Gustard’s remotes are fairly bare bones too. The remote for the ADI-2 is full-featured, which makes sense because it’s so feature-rich.

But in the case of the D90se, which is a pure DAC with no headphone amp, there isn’t much to fiddle with except for input sources, and for that the remote works fine. My only gripe with it is that its settings can only be accessed by turning it off and restarting it in settings mode—although I rarely touch the settings, it would still be nice if the filters, voltages and sound signatures could be changed on the fly.
 

respice finem

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I use the same remote for E30, D30Pro and D70 and never, never had aiming problems at all...
Could the problem be environmental, or related on the location of the device?
I guess the remote is the same as the one of my EX5, at least it looks identical. Having been a sports pistol shooter for 4 decades, I hardly have aiming problems, but sometimes hitting problems :) with this remote, especially if I'm near the device (<2m). My best guess: an IR emitter with a (too) narrow beam - if you're too near, and the beam slightly deviates from the remote's central axis, you may miss the IR receiver.
 

Saponetto

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E30 virtually needs no remote interaction, D30Pro has its knob I like so much to fiddle with, I often use the remote when playing with the D70, anyway it's for me also just for simple on the fly changes as you mention.

Big settings are to be done by turning these devices off, so it's another thing outside of the remote boundaries.
Perhaps, the major flaw ot the Topping RC-15 Remote is its too "fragile" looking...
 
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sarumbear

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That’s why I love Roon! The only remote I need is my phone…:)
How many clicks do you have to make to lower the volume before answering the phone?
 
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