Topping A90 Discrete Review (Headphone Amp & Preamp)

[nagster]

This is my result.

When connecting a mac machine and A90D with a USB cable.
The drive is not displayed.
"-2" is displayed on the A90D display.
The firmware cannot be updated.
1, macOS 10.13.6 macbookpro, retina, 15-inch, Late2013
2, macOS 10.15.7 macbookair, 11-inch, Mid 2012
Amazon Basics USB-C to USB-A Cable 3 Feet. All USB ports. Connect AC adapter

When the windows machine and A90D are connected with a USB cable.
A drive "TOPPING FW" is displayed.
The A90D doesn't shine anywhere.
The firmware has been updated to "VER23".
1, asus board desktop windows10pro 64bit
2, hp laptop windows10pro 64bit
Amazon Basics USB-C to USB-A Cable 3 Feet. All USB ports.

 

[Jimster480]

This is my result.

When connecting a mac machine and A90D with a USB cable.
The drive is not displayed.
"-2" is displayed on the A90D display.
The firmware cannot be updated.
1, macOS 10.13.6 macbookpro, retina, 15-inch, Late2013
2, macOS 10.15.7 macbookair, 11-inch, Mid 2012
Amazon Basics USB-C to USB-A Cable 3 Feet. All USB ports. Connect AC adapter

When the windows machine and A90D are connected with a USB cable.
A drive "TOPPING FW" is displayed.
The A90D doesn't shine anywhere.
The firmware has been updated to "VER23".
1, asus board desktop windows10pro 64bit
2, hp laptop windows10pro 64bit
Amazon Basics USB-C to USB-A Cable 3 Feet. All USB ports.

Likely the Mac cannot support the file system they are using or you have to get an additional extension.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Likely the Mac cannot support the file system they are using or you have to get an additional extension.

Stock firmware didn't support Mac OS. The newer firmware fixed the issue and now should work with Macs. (yeah I know the issue of how to get the firmware upgrade if it doesn't work with Mac) But at least it should work after upgrade.

Another thing is that currently the DM7's type c port has to connect to type A port to work. So if you connect to a type c port with a type c to type c cable it wouldn't work. Use the provided cable and it should work fine.

EDIT: Only newer batches support firmware upgrade on Mac OS and Linux based distros. Sorry for the confusion. The second point still stands. And all A90 Discrete should work with Windows.

 

[Jimster480]

How does this compare to something such as the original DX7 or even a THX AAA 789 when driving heavy planars? I have only Planar headphones on my desk (Oppo PM-2, DC / MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed, Hifiman Ananda), they are all low impedance and high current.
Is there any benefit here?

 

[JohnYang1997]

How does this compare to something such as the original DX7 or even a THX AAA 789 when driving heavy planars? I have only Planar headphones on my desk (Oppo PM-2, DC / MrSpeakers Aeon Flow Closed, Hifiman Ananda), they are all low impedance and high current.
Is there any benefit here?

It's much better than the original dx7(or dx7pro for that matter) but not necessarily beneficial over 789(although A90D does have more power and lower noise). If you have a 789 then you wouldn't need this.

 

[Jimster480]

It's much better than the original dx7(or dx7pro for that matter) but not necessarily beneficial over 789(although A90D does have more power and lower noise). If you have a 789 then you wouldn't need this.

Thanks for the honest feedback!
I don't use the DX7 headphone output mostly as I just feed it into the 789.
Will likely upgrade the DX7 sometime soon.

I read of a new DX7 coming out, I may get that one. It will be 5 years since I have my DX7 in a few weeks (just checked the order date 8/14/17) as it arrived only a couple days later. Will repurpose my old DX7 for my second machine now (currently with my D30) then take the D30 and use it for one of my sound bars I recently setup (they seem to have really bad internal DACs, so the D30 should make it sound better).

 

[Phony846]

Stock firmware didn't support Mac OS. The newer firmware fixed the issue and now should work with Macs. (yeah I know the issue of how to get the firmware upgrade if it doesn't work with Mac) But at least it should work after upgrade.

Another thing is that currently the DM7's type c port has to connect to type A port to work. So if you connect to a type c port with a type c to type c cable it wouldn't work. Use the provided cable and it should work fine.

EDIT: Only newer batches support firmware upgrade on Mac OS and Linux based distros. Sorry for the confusion. The second point still stands. And all A90 Discrete should work with Windows.

In my experience the A90D even with firmware v2.3 has a big compatibility problem with Thunderbolt 3 or 4 ports, regardless of OS (macOS or Windows). No matter what I do on my two Macs (Intel, M1 Pro) with TB3/4 ports the TOPPING FW drive does NOT show up. However, I have a TB4 dock which has a legacy USB-A port, and using a USB-C to USB-A cable the A90D TOPPING FW drive immediately shows up on macOS. I have an older Intel NUC running Windows 10 with TB3 ports, and using that TB3 port results is NO TOPPING FW drive.

 

[JohnYang1997]

In my experience the A90D even with firmware v2.3 has a big compatibility problem with Thunderbolt 3 or 4 ports, regardless of OS (macOS or Windows). No matter what I do on my two Macs (Intel, M1 Pro) with TB3/4 ports the TOPPING FW drive does NOT show up. However, I have a TB4 dock which has a legacy USB-A port, and using a USB-C to USB-A cable the A90D TOPPING FW drive immediately shows up on macOS. I have an older Intel NUC running Windows 10 with TB3 ports, and using that TB3 port results is NO TOPPING FW drive.

Only typec to typeA cable is supported.

 

[Phony846]

Only typec to typeA cable is supported.

Ok I'm very confused. The A90D has a USB-C port on it. Literally every other USB-C device I've ever seen can be plugged into a computer that has a USB-C port, and it works. But you are saying that there's a design problem with the A90D that requires a USB-C to USB-A cable for it to work properly? Is that documented anywhere on the Topping site or user manual? Why include a USB-C port if it doesn't follow industry norms?

Per the Topping site
2, Connect A90 Discrete to a PC/Mac via a usb type-C cable. A removable drive will show up in the explorer.

....very confused.

 

[enricoclaudio]

Ok I'm very confused. The A90D has a USB-C port on it. Literally every other USB-C device I've ever seen can be plugged into a computer that has a USB-C port, and it works. But you are saying that there's a design problem with the A90D that requires a USB-C to USB-A cable for it to work properly? Is that documented anywhere on the Topping site or user manual? Why include a USB-C port if it doesn't follow industry norms?

Per the Topping site
2, Connect A90 Discrete to a PC/Mac via a usb type-C cable. A removable drive will show up in the explorer.

....very confused.

USB-C is only the connector type. USB-C can be USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, TB3 and TB4. In the case of the A90D, the USB-C port runs on a USB 2.0 speed/protocol same as many audio interfaces that use USB-C connector only for convenience, not for speed or protocol. However, I do agree with you that Topping should document this on the user manual.

 

[Phony846]

USB-C is only the connector type. USB-C can be USB 2.0, 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, TB3 and TB4. In the case of the A90D, the USB-C port runs on a USB 2.0 speed/protocol same as many audio interfaces that use USB-C connector only for convenience, not for speed or protocol. However, I do agree with you that Topping should document this on the user manual.

Yes, I'm a super nerd and very familiar with the physical connector shape vs. the USB or TB protocols. However, USB is designed to be a backwards compatible specification. If the A90D can't negotiate USB 2.0 speeds over a USB-C connector when using a USB-C to USB-C cable, something is broken on the Topping side. It's not a USB-IF standards limitation.

This is a snippet from PC world:

USB Type C is supposed to be a universal standard, but it’s just universally confusing. A USB Type C port can run at either 5Gbps or 10Gbps and still be labeled USB 3.1 by the laptop maker. USB Type C even technically supports USB 2.0 speeds at a pathetic 480Mbps. So when you see a USB Type C port, the only assumption you can make is that its transfer speeds can vary from as low as 480Mbps to as high as 10Gbps.

 

[Atanasi]

If the A90D can't negotiate USB 2.0 speeds over a USB-C connector when using a USB-C to USB-C cable, something is broken on the Topping side. It's not a USB-IF standards limitation.

At least a couple of Topping products fail to work with C-C cables (BC3 and NX7 for charging). The issue boils down to including the correct resistor to indicate the appropriate bus role, host or peripheral, as this resistor is not needed with an A-C cable: an A-C cable has fixed roles for its connectors and the resistors are included in the cable. I think omitting these resistors is sloppy.

 

[Jimster480]

Ok I'm very confused. The A90D has a USB-C port on it. Literally every other USB-C device I've ever seen can be plugged into a computer that has a USB-C port, and it works. But you are saying that there's a design problem with the A90D that requires a USB-C to USB-A cable for it to work properly? Is that documented anywhere on the Topping site or user manual? Why include a USB-C port if it doesn't follow industry norms?

Per the Topping site
2, Connect A90 Discrete to a PC/Mac via a usb type-C cable. A removable drive will show up in the explorer.

....very confused.

I'm sorry but that is not the case at all. USBC Port does not mean that it can be plugged into any usb-c device. The port is literally only a port and runs with various different protocols and speed.
I have tested quite a few products which can only connect with a usb-a to usb-c cable. Many other devices which can only be charged from a usb-a port and less the charger supports standard USB a style charging over USB c.
However they should at least list this in their user manual

 

[Atanasi]

I'm sorry but that is not the case at all. USBC Port does not mean that it can be plugged into any usb-c device. The port is literally only a port and runs with various different protocols and speed.

A device with a type-C port is supposed to work with a C-C cable. No matter if the device uses USB 2, 3, some other protocol or just bus power. It is simply not allowed by the type-C specs to just support A-C cables. C-C cables are even the default choice for C-type ports, and A-C cables are called legacy. Likewise it is not allowed to omit some other feature of the specs like reversible orientation, for example, such that the device only negotiates correctly if the cable is turned around.

 

[Protomartyrdom]

Can someone with the updated firmware comment on the remote-less gain control? Does it work well?

 

[Jimster480]

A device with a type-C port is supposed to work a C-C cable. No matter if it uses USB 2, 3, some other protocol or just bus power. It is simply not allowed by the type-C specs to just support A-C cables. C-C cables are even the default choice for C-type ports, and A-C cables are called legacy. Likewise it is not allowed to omit some other feature of the specs like reversible orientation, for example, such that the device only negotiates correctly if the cable is turned around.

Well I have seen many devices which do not work in this manner. Technically this device should work with a usb-c to usb-c Cable if the other Port that it is plugged into is a USB 2.0 usb-c port. Certain laptops and desktops do indeed have one of these ports but it is not common.

 

[carlcamper]

@JohnYang1997 when will we see more reviews of this awesome product? I'm assuming reviewers are waiting for the US rollout in August?

 

[nagster]

Can someone with the updated firmware comment on the remote-less gain control? Does it work well?

My result.
When I held down the volume knob on the main unit and turned it to the right, the gain switched to "H". Turned it to the left, the gain switched to "L". The firmware is "VER23".

 

[Dogcoop]

Just wondering if anyone is using the Stealth with a Topping A90 Discrete?

If so, would you share what volume level you are comfortable using?

Thnx

 

[enricoclaudio]

Just wondering if anyone is using the Stealth with a Topping A90 Discrete?

If so, would you share what volume level you are comfortable using?

Thnx

Did you even read the review?

Topping A90 Discrete Listening Tests
I have been using my everyday Dan Clark Stealth headphone as a "it won't drive it but let's see what it does" test for headphone amps. This is the first time I have seen an amplifier have such an upper hand over these headphones. The sound is incredibly dynamic and beautiful. "Loud" listening is at volume level 80 in high gain. I cranked it up to 95 before I got scared for my hearing without any hint of distortion. I had not heard these headphones come to life so well.