Mobile Fidelity Analog Vinyl Controversy

[MCH]

That's variable pitch cutting and the preview tells the cutting computer to expect louder modulations which need wider groove spacing. In a worst case scenario the digital delayed version is the signal which is cut onto the record, with the nice analog original sound being used only for the disc cutting computer. A better solution was the use of a physical 'preview head' on the tape playback machine which read the analog tape some time before it hit the actual playback head. One of the advantages of cutting from a digital source is that there is no degredation in sound quality in the delayed source, so everything is nice and controllable.

This guy explains it in minute 6-7:

 

[Anthony101]

I guess it's an Original Recording (of the) Master, so technically their branding isn't wrong

I agree technically; they are not lying. as the pamphlet says, original master recording and not original master tape. Furthermore, the box includes a booklet with pictures of the master tapes and a few cutting notes. Honestly, it feels like they are doing everything in hand to suggest that these are AAA recordings.

 

[anmpr1]

I thought Mobile Fidelity's claim to fame was half speed mastering, which was supposed to make it easier for the cutting head to deal with transients? I've got a few, and always thought they were OK. Back in the day they claimed to use JVC SuperVinyl, so surface noise was less pronounced. You still got the occasional pop and click. You can't make a record something it's not.

I believe I still have Fagan's Nightfly, Sticky Fingers, and Abbey Road. The first was recorded on the Mitsubishi digital system (if memory serves). The Stones record was amazing for the stuff you couldn't hear on the regular LP, but seemed to me to be 'too nice', and not sounding like I thought a Rolling Stones record should sound-- tiny and compressed. Nightfly was 'softer' than the CD (if that makes any sense). I guess you'd expect that. The Beatles record was too bass heavy, overall. On the upside, they came in a heavy plastic bag, with a nice inner sleeve; along with some promo material, telling you how great their product was, and thanking you for the purchase, etc.

I wouldn't say the sonics were as good as Sheffield Direct to Disc. Those, and the Umbrella label direct to discs (from Audio Technica), were always first rate--if you didn't mind the second tier program material/artists.

 

[MCH]

I have never been interested in MOFI releases because they were way too expensive for me and because I dislike their cover design, very intrusive to the original artwork, in my opinion.
However I don't recall that they main selling point or what they were famous for back in the day was a full analog signal treatment. In fact they were selling CDs as well...
In my mind, and I think in many people's minds, these were the guys with access to the original tapes that offered different (and supposedly better, lower generation, closer to the original, whatever) remasters in a time many people were concerned about, in their opinion, poor CD masterings of classic albums. Their CDs were far from luxurious and the covers very ugly but still they were very expensive iirc.

 

[MarcT]

I thought Mobile Fidelity's claim to fame was half speed mastering, which was supposed to make it easier for the cutting head to deal with transients? I've got a few, and always thought they were OK. Back in the day they claimed to use JVC SuperVinyl, so surface noise was less pronounced. You still got the occasional pop and click. You can't make a record something it's not.

I believe I still have Fagan's Nightfly, Sticky Fingers, and Abbey Road. The first was recorded on the Mitsubishi digital system (if memory serves). The Stones record was amazing for the stuff you couldn't hear on the regular LP, but seemed to me to be 'too nice', and not sounding like I thought a Rolling Stones record should sound-- tiny and compressed. Nightfly was 'softer' than the CD (if that makes any sense). I guess you'd expect that. The Beatles record was too bass heavy, overall. On the upside, they came in a heavy plastic bag, with a nice inner sleeve; along with some promo material, telling you how great their product was, and thanking you for the purchase, etc.

I wouldn't say the sonics were as good as Sheffield Direct to Disc. Those, and the Umbrella label direct to discs (from Audio Technica), were always first rate--if you didn't mind the second tier program material/artists.

Wait! Have you heard the Harry James Big Band? I wouldn't call them second tier!

 

[anmpr1]

Wait! Have you heard the Harry James Big Band? I wouldn't call them second tier!

Generally speaking. I'm talking generally speaking. And there's always a pecking order. Rob McConnell isn't Harry, and Harry isn't the Count. But I'd go see each. Or I would If Basie was still alive. Actually heard him twice. It was an experience. But for some reason I really couldn't hear Freddie Green's guitar, once the band started swinging.

This brings back the kind of memories you don't get, anymore, with on-line digits and the general demise of hi-fi stores. How many times would you walk into your favorite dealer, and have to listen to Amanda McBroom, because the record was cut so fantastic that you just had to hear it on whatever the store was featuring in their price no object 'high-end' system of the month!

 

[MarcT]

Generally speaking. I'm talking generally speaking. And there's always a pecking order. Rob McConnell isn't Harry, and Harry isn't the Count. But I'd go see each. Or I would If Basie was still alive. Actually heard him twice. It was an experience. But for some reason I really couldn't hear Freddie Green's guitar, once the band started swinging.

This brings back the kind of memories you don't get, anymore, with on-line digits and the general demise of hi-fi stores. How many times would you walk into your favorite dealer, and have to listen to Amanda McBroom, because the record was cut so fantastic that you just had to hear it on whatever the store was featuring in their price no object 'high-end' system of the month!

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Nice. I just remembered I have the SACD Mel Torme Velvet and Brass with the Boss Brass. I'll have to give that album another listen. I can't find for streaming that Boss Brass album you posted the picture of.

 

[dadregga]

I agree technically; they are not lying. as the pamphlet says, original master recording and not original master tape. Furthermore, the box includes a booklet with pictures of the master tapes and a few cutting notes. Honestly, it feels like they are doing everything in hand to suggest that these are AAA recordings.

Kinda - some of this is that they've been using the same advertising copy around their process for decades, and their "One Step" process has always been explicitly about how the vinyl is cut and how many generations they go thru for that - not about what the source of the vinyl cut is - other than a claim (still true) that they source the original master tapes.

I think some of this is simply the world changing around their advertising - nobody used to care about whether the lacquer itself was physically cut from the literal master tape, they cared about what the lacquers were sourced from, and how the lacquers were cut and pressed, and how much generational loss there was between the original lacquer and the vinyl they would ultimately hold in their hand - because the cutting process itself has an impact on how good the actual disc you end up getting is, because high-quality vinyl manufacturing is an expensive and time-consuming process and manufacturers tend to shortcut.

Now, people have built a bit of a cult around "cutting the lacquer from the master tape in the same room" as a proxy for quality, and their advertising hasn't been updated to match.

 

[sofrep811]

Truly, I don’t think anyone cares as long as it sounds good. I mean..they released a few Dire Strait’s LPs that were recorded digitally. Much ado about nothing. I don’t buy MoFi either. Prefer Analouge Prod and the Acoustic Sounds for my purchases. Don’t care if those have any digital in them as well — the Coltrane and Evans albums sound great. I also own SACDs and CDs. I’m tired of this vinyl revolution because everyone is now an expert. Preferred it as a dead hobby. Vinyl is overpriced and not a great used market and brick and mortar stores. Ok… I vented. No offense to anyone. I’m going to go and enjoy some digital music with my new Chord M-Scaler— it puts new music/bits into my CDs with its upsampling! 44K to 786K!! Best investment ever After my Nordic speaker wires I bought after taking out a refi on my house.

This worth reading in regards to this much ado about nothing MoFi conspiracy:

How Recordings Are Produced, and What It Means to Your Hi-Fi | The Ivory Tower

Hi-Fi news, gear reviews, and interviews

parttimeaudiophile.com

 

[Anthony101]

Truly, I don’t think anyone cares as long as it sounds good. I mean..they released a few Dire Strait’s LPs that were recorded digitally. Much ado about nothing. I don’t buy MoFi either. Prefer Analouge Prod and the Acoustic Sounds for my purchases. Don’t care if those have any digital in them as well — the Coltrane and Evans albums sound great. I also own SACDs and CDs. I’m tired of this vinyl revolution because everyone is now an expert. Preferred it as a dead hobby. Vinyl is overpriced and not a great used market and brick and mortar stores. Ok… I vented. No offense to anyone. I’m going to go and enjoy some digital music with my new Chord M-Scaler— it puts new music/bits into my CDs with its upsampling! 44K to 786K!! Best investment ever After my Nordic speaker wires I bought after taking out a refi on my house.

This worth reading in regards to this much ado about nothing MoFi conspiracy:

How Recordings Are Produced, and What It Means to Your Hi-Fi | The Ivory Tower

Hi-Fi news, gear reviews, and interviews

parttimeaudiophile.com

I'm going to follow your lead. I will pour a glass and listen to one of my favourite albums in digital format; Seven Steps to Heaven by Miles Davis.

 

[jcarrico]

Does anyone know the equipment they used to create the 4X DSD from the original master?

 

[Azazello13]

A digital step done right introduces no added artifacts and is basically transparent. So whether an LP has gone through a digital step is a moot point for me. The 'magic' of vinyl playback occurs in the process of dragging a rock through plastic, not in what happened upstream.

In fact, there are LPs I've purchased which were authentically cut from the original reel to reel analog tapes which have displayed sonic problems due to tape damage or whatever which could have been easily fixed in ProTools. It's those times I wish they had gone through a digital step to cure problems which couldn't be addressed in the pure analog domain.

I don't believe an original analog master tape is a holy artifact which cannot be reinterpreted so as to improve it.

This is obviously correct, and it largely explains WHY Mofi uses a digital copy of the master. It is simply the best, most transparent tool for the job. They even talk about how they've tried a lot of different tape formats for their initial copy but none are as good as the DSD transfer. These guys are pros with a real passion for what they do, they really are just trying to get the best transfer possible within various constraints.

But they knew these analog purist snobs with fat wallets were out there, and they were happy to lead them around selling $100 LPs along the way.

What this whole thing points out to me is that for any real Hifi company, even if their motives are basically honest and their work is superb, the temptation to sell a little snake oil is almost impossible to resist. There are so many easy marks.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

This is obviously correct, and it largely explains WHY Mofi uses a digital copy of the master. It is simply the best, most transparent tool for the job. They even talk about how they've tried a lot of different tape formats for their initial copy but none are as good as the DSD transfer. These guys are pros with a real passion for what they do, they really are just trying to get the best transfer possible within various constraints.

But they knew these analog purist snobs with fat wallets were out there, and they were happy to lead them around selling $100 LPs along the way.

What this whole thing points out to me is that for any real Hifi company, even if their motives are basically honest and their work is superb, the temptation to sell a little snake oil is almost impossible to resist. There are so many easy marks.

Yep, its unfortunate. If MoFi had been honest from the start in explaining why cutting from a digital copy is superior than cutting from a decades old analog tape, the 'scandal' would likely have been defused. In the digital realm, reconstructive work to reverse problems with degraded tapes is a piece of cake. I remastered film music soundtracks of some classic films and know this first hand. But audiophile snobs will be audiophile snobs.

 

[dadregga]

This is obviously correct, and it largely explains WHY Mofi uses a digital copy of the master. It is simply the best, most transparent tool for the job. They even talk about how they've tried a lot of different tape formats for their initial copy but none are as good as the DSD transfer. These guys are pros with a real passion for what they do, they really are just trying to get the best transfer possible within various constraints.

But they knew these analog purist snobs with fat wallets were out there, and they were happy to lead them around selling $100 LPs along the way.

What this whole thing points out to me is that for any real Hifi company, even if their motives are basically honest and their work is superb, the temptation to sell a little snake oil is almost impossible to resist. There are so many easy marks.

Also the fact that if you explain every little detail about what you do, a lot of people will say you're doing it wrong and still get upset no matter what, and more you explain the more they'll do that, so there's not a huge incentive to get detailed in the first place.

If they explained the digital step the analog purists would build a cult around that.

If they didn't have a digital step everyone else would go "wait this exercise is really driving up the cost of your already expensive records, why are you even doing it"

 

[Dial]

Tape recorders must have disappeared from studios 30 years ago...
Otherwise I had some "Anadiscs" that I had bought to resell them for more. At the time we could still do it, there was surface mail which was not expensive like $2 per disc. I liked the sealed plastic that wrapped very rigid cardboard covers.

 

[Azazello13]

This guy might be my new favorite Youtuber.

 

[Music1969]

This is all hilarious

Some funny viewing

 

[Music1969]

DSD will come roaring back people - now at DSD256

 

[kchap]

This guy might be my new favorite Youtuber.

My new mantra, "Bring down the bullshit"

 

[Dial]

A(n old) turntable is cool, a used one can be found for $25 (but change the stylus, huh).