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Another guy on Youtube going to visit Danny down in texas....

Mark_A

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I see. So it's a matter of relativity.

So if one person murders 5 people, and another only murders one person, does that make the single-person murderer not guilty? Or maybe less guilty? Maybe guilty of something other than murder, like attempted jaywalking? Maybe we should actually give him a Lifesaving Medal, because there were 4 other people whose lives he saved, right?

I guess it basically comes down to caveat agonia. After all, victims deserve whatever happens to them, the same way buyers deserve whatever happens to them, right?
:facepalm: :facepalm:

Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

Jim
I didn't say it was a matter of relatively. I was just stating what I believe to be the facts about what all high-end audio retailers do. I don't know exactly what to conclude from it.

We are continuously bombarded with advertisements about millions of products and services (not just audio) on various media venues or by sales people in retail stores. There is no way to survive that kind of barrage without the buyer taking some responsibility to figure out whether those claims are true or not (or important or not).]

In the case of audio cables, it is actually true that there are differences in electrical properties from one brand/model of cable to another, but most knowledgeable people understand that the differences are very tiny (and sometimes not measurable with current instruments) and not audible to human ear.
 

DMill

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There isn't a high-end audio retailer anywhere in the world that doesn't sell cables even more expensive than those from GR-Research to their customers. It basically comes down to caveat emptor (buyer beware).
They all sell cables, true. I’ve noticed most don’t wire their own gear with them. Also, they are very reluctant to let you audition them. I was told once that if they removed it from the packaging they could no longer sell said item. They have fleeced people for years with tweaks and cables which may be one reason so few of them are left? If they are smart they avoid conversations about cables and sell their “high-end” offerings to only those who demand them because they believe them better in some way. One sure way to have me looking for the door would be try and sell me a $2k speaker cable to go with the Revels I was about to buy.
 

ta240

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I see. So it's a matter of relativity.

So if one person murders 5 people, and another only murders one person, does that make the single-person murderer not guilty? Or maybe less guilty? Maybe guilty of something other than murder, like attempted jaywalking? Maybe we should actually give him a Lifesaving Medal, because there were 4 other people whose lives he saved, right?

I guess it basically comes down to caveat agonia. After all, victims deserve whatever happens to them, the same way buyers deserve whatever happens to them, right?
:facepalm: :facepalm:

Just want to make sure I understand what you're saying.

Jim

You'd kind-of have to compare it to someone that located a serial killer online and then went over to their house and ended up dead. Nobody just walking down the street gets their wallet stolen and replaced with high end cables.

It gets into a weird area because people have to go out of their way to buy these cables but, technically, Danny and the infomercial hosts pushing this merchandise do come right into people's worlds and push the sale online.

The only person I'm angry with for the amount I spent on some of that junk is myself. Even though back 10 years ago there were very few dissenting opinions about it online. Entire threads about the sound of capacitors on DIY sites wouldn't have one single "as long as they are within spec they will be the same" reply. That has changed in the last couple years.
Now the information is out there and much more readily available for people to make an educated decision.

Lets bring a lie detector to the next big audio show and ask the manufactures and retailers if they believe their claims :)

They all sell cables, true. I’ve noticed most don’t wire their own gear with them. Also, they are very reluctant to let you audition them. I was told once that if they removed it from the packaging they could no longer sell said item. They have fleeced people for years with tweaks and cables which may be one reason so few of them are left? If they are smart they avoid conversations about cables and sell their “high-end” offerings to only those who demand them because they believe them better in some way. One sure way to have me looking for the door would be try and sell me a $2k speaker cable to go with the Revels I was about to buy.

I wonder if they are gone because they sold cables or if they are gone because they started selling fewer cables. Businesses with low margins often tend to make it up with expensive add ons. Car dealers that sell at invoice tend to only survive by getting people to add on overpriced things they don't need.
On the 'looking for the door' subject, years ago I was buying some piece of electronic equipment and the salesperson was adamant that I needed an extended warranty because it could break at any time. I decided I probably didn't want something that unreliable and left.
I read an article about a Buick dealer that said they sold lots of extended warranties by taking customers out to the shop and showing them a car with the dash ripped out and asking if they had any idea how expensive that would be out of warranty. I guess nobody ever said "I'm going to go check reliability ratings and maybe I'll be back"
 
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Mark_A

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They all sell cables, true. I’ve noticed most don’t wire their own gear with them. Also, they are very reluctant to let you audition them. I was told once that if they removed it from the packaging they could no longer sell said item. They have fleeced people for years with tweaks and cables which may be one reason so few of them are left? If they are smart they avoid conversations about cables and sell their “high-end” offerings to only those who demand them because they believe them better in some way. One sure way to have me looking for the door would be try and sell me a $2k speaker cable to go with the Revels I was about to buy.
The last time I bought speaker cable was 1988 when I went to Home Depot and got some 12 gauge stranded speaker wire (with a clear jacket) by the foot off a large reel. I needed 25 foot runs, so I bought 50 feet of cable, and then soldered some gold-plated connectors on myself. I have been using the same cable ever since then, although I have cut shorter lengths of about 8-10 feet each out of the same original cable that I bought. 12 gauge is overkill for 8-10 foot runs, but I since I still have the 12 gauge cable I just reused it.
 

ta240

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Probably a lot of them do believe it.

I’d almost rather they do believe it. I can forgive stupid. The alternative is much harder to stomach.
That's what I'm hoping and I think it is true.

I can't imagine that they are exempt from the wanting to belong, wanting to be able to hear the difference, wanting to be part of the crowd that is 'that' good at listening.
 

jae

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They are both showmen. Know what Danny is selling, not as clear with Jay just yet…
Affiliate links, youtube ads, patreon subscriptions, paid consultations/advice, ample opportunity to flip/profit off gear trade... plus of course general reviewer perks and free stuff that will probably end up sold. Perhaps he is not "raking it in" or selling anything directly at this stage, but his name as a reviewer or "influencer", his exposure and perceived credibility on social media etc. are worth their weight in potentially very lucrative future endeavours. Collaborating with other audiophiles with an established following is in his best interest regardless of what he thinks or believes to be true.
Well, looks like we got the answer sooner than I had expected...

 

ta240

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According to their site "We don’t advertise, buy reviews, nor attend trade-shows, " So did Jay and the other youtube reviewers pay for the ones they use? If not they are getting some high quality infomercials, paid for with product.
 

mhardy6647

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Every time I see this thread's title pop up when I search "new posts", I get the mental image of a surly, burly guy* carrying a tire iron "going down to visit Danny". ;)


_____________
* Surly, burly guy sounds like a T.S. Geisel outtake. :rolleyes:
 

ta240

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So, you have to tune amps for a lush mid range and a tube-like sound.

What a fool I am, I thought the goal of an amp was to take an input signal and increase it's amplitude, while doing as little else to it as possible. :rolleyes:

I don't have a problem with an amp having a sound signature, if that is what people want then yay for them. Especially if it is advertised as such. I mean, sure, the way they word it makes it sound better (they can't say we muddy the midrange to make it sound smooth) but if you know that for you it isn't then you can avoid it.

I am curious beyond imagining due to expectation, what causes the sound differences. Does a lot of distortion sound smoother? Does less bass make the midrange stand out more? Does a bit of increase in the high frequencies make it 'sparkle'. I would think there would always be trade-offs for increasing something in the audio. The caveat always included with 'all amps sound the same' is 'functioning correctly'. So what do the different parts of not functioning properly sound like? It would be interesting to get people to comment on a variety of amps with different issues, or a single amp with the issues artificially added, as to what they noticed in the sound.
 

Plcamp

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It would be interesting to get people to comment on a variety of amps with different issues
I bought two Adcom 535II power amps from different local guys selling them. They both sounded dull compared to a Hafler, and one was even nasty.

The nasty one was hacked by someone to add a new isolation capacitor in the feedback of the input diffpair. The input dc offset opamp was crusty with some spill. fixed that. Cleaned everything, discovered input diffpair transistors had big gain mismatch, and fixed that. Unit runs perfectly since.

Second unit was (I think) untouched, but again needed a clean and diffpair transistor match. Listening to it right now.

They were both very dirty. Sticky dirt.
 

Rick Sykora

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Well, looks like we got the answer sooner than I had expected...

Me too! Not suprisingly, he appears to be targeting a niche of high end audiophile wanna-bees. For $1200 can get a nice stereo Purifi amp. This Burson looks like more bling. Would be interested to see how the basic version tests. Would not pay 2-3 times more for the Jay variant (EDIT) vs the base price. :(
 
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nsfgp

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Actually ... you are only paying $50 more than the normal version Funk w/ the V6 OpAmp + stand upgrade; and you get these for free:
- Super Charger 5A power supply ($345)
- Jay's mod including power supply circuit mod (MCPS)
- special gold/black color schema
So for those that are interested in a Funk already ... this is the version to get ... 52 units left as of now.

And No I am not buying one myself :)
 

Count Arthur

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"Celebrity" reviewer endorsements can surely cut both ways.

I find the way that Jay Lee guy pontificates whilst looking pained and earnest, incredibly irritating, such that I wouldn't go anywhere near a product that he endorsed.
 
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Cbdb2

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Actually ... you are only paying $50 more than the normal version Funk w/ the V6 OpAmp + stand upgrade; and you get these for free:
- Super Charger 5A power supply ($345)
- Jay's mod including power supply circuit mod (MCPS)
- special gold/black color schema
So for those that are interested in a Funk already ... this is the version to get ... 52 units left as of now.

And No I am not buying one myself :)
No your only selling them. And Burson opamps only advantage over real opamps is there marketing BS. I expected the same for that amp and there it is.
 

ta240

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"Celebrity" reviewer endorsements can surely cut both ways.

I find the way that Jay Lee guy pontificates whilst looking pained and earnest, incredibly irritating, such that I wouldn't go anywhere near a product that he endorsed.

You perfectly put into words what makes me turn those videos off every time.

It is infomercials with overacting. Somehow a lot of people connect with that :rolleyes: because the number of channels hosted that way is increasing. That and the folksy "I'm just a guy talking to you about audio, because I like you." seem to be taking over.
 

nsfgp

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No your only selling them. And Burson opamps only advantage over real opamps is there marketing BS. I expected the same for that amp and there it is.
I thought about selling them ... but decided not to because they don't have Tube Connectors on them; does not come with power cord w/ a plug that has a "moving" sleeve; and they did not called it some kind of "Giant Killer 2.0". :D
Joking aside ... I only posted above trying to point out some price/feature information after seeing Rick's message. He mistaken this thing cost $1200 ... instead of $850 shipped. Not trying to promote it or saying it is a good amp. I have never tried any Burson product myself.
I pointed out the fact that if someone is going to buy the regular Funk w/ the OpA/stand upgrade for $744; they should pay $795 for this package instead and have the Super Charger 5A included that would have caused him/her $345 extra (if only for resale later on). Shipping is the same $55 either way.

Sorry for interrupting your intended discussion. :)
 
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