• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Streaming services: classical Music, any Primephonic/Apple updates, other?

Timcognito

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 28, 2021
Messages
3,350
Likes
12,561
Location
NorCal

mSpot

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 15, 2018
Messages
404
Likes
519
Does Apple Music give us to the Primephonic catalog now?
Not yet. The new Apple Classical app was anticipated at the developer conference last month but it didn't happen. Now there is speculation that there will be an event in the fall for new audio and music products.
 

Sashoir

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
118
Likes
140
I tend to use Idagio primarily for its radio and playlist-type functionality. I use Spotify as my primary channel to new music (to me), but I find the radio/playlist functions steer me to the avant garde very quickly for classical and jazz (great for pop and rock), which I don't really enjoy.
Idagio seems to know that I'm unlikely to want to listen to anything more "advanced" than Alban Berg, whereas Spotify is convinced that if I just give Karl-Heinz Stockhausen and Ornette Coleman another five million chances, I'll get to like them.
The metadata issue with classical music is, I think, insoluble. I hate the Roon approach (some people like it), and the Spotify one is pretty daft, but to be fair, I can't imagine a popular music fan thinking that X is an Arista release makes X worth a shot (all due respect to Clive Davis), but that seems to be a use-case for classical music (including occasionally for me, which is strange because I rate pop/rock A&R much more highly than classical).
Incidentally, Presto, which is where I buy about 2/3 of my music (the ready spread out over Qobuz, 7digital, and Chandos) also allows streaming the things I've already purchased, which is convenient for my handphone or computers with a decent connexion but where I have limited permissions. I imagine they will gradually launch a classical and jazz streaming service now that it's a one-horse field while Apple apple-ifies Primephonic.
 
OP
L

LuvTheMusic

Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
111
Likes
137
Quick Update:

You'll recall that my OP asked about differences among streaming services for those of us interested in classical music. Specifically, I wanted to know if there were alternatives to Qobuz, at least until (if ever) Apple resucitates its Primephonic acquisition. You'll also recall that Idagio is the obvious choice for strictly classical, but that the other services offered the bonus of other genres for those days when only jazz or rock will do. Finally, I figure that if I'm going to have customer non-service, I might as well be dissed by platforms costing a few bucks less as by Qobuz.

I signed up for Amazon Music (the unlimited version, not the Prime cheapie) to try it out for classical music. The classical playlists and recommendations seem primitive relative to Idagio and Qobuz. The search function is at least usable now, except that the album results (for classical, "song" results are rarely what is wanted) are listed by title with teeny tiny thumbnails of album covers so that it often is impossible to know which of the listed titles is the one that you want. For example, if you are looking for the Oue recording of the Rite of Spring, you get a listing of several albums entitled "Rite of Spring" with no indication of which is the Oue / Minneapolis / Reference Recordings one. If the search is very specific, the first result on the list usually is the correct one, but still..... Finally, every time that a search is initiated, one has to choose between "Amazon Music" and "My Music"; I have only a vague idea why that happens and it's quite annoying after a few dozen repetitions.

I'm now poking around to see if Amazon seems to have recordings that Qobuz does not have. Amazon, after all, should have more leverage than anyone else around, thus a greater chance to host recordings from, say, Hyperion or RCA's back catalog. (For example, try finding recordings by Slatkin / St Louis.) So far, I've not seen much difference on the classical side, but I'll keep looking and report back.
 

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,062
Likes
1,503
I use Apple Music for classical. I find it pretty easy to find what I want by searching under artist combos (eg conductor and orchestra). But searching by composer does not work at all. I assume this will be fixed by the forthcoming version.

So far they've had everything I've looked for, whereas Quobuz did not (which is why I switched to Apple).

I stream via Airplay at CD quality, which is plenty good enough for me.
 

theREALdotnet

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
1,181
Likes
2,036
One other question: when Apply Classical does come along, how does one get the digital stream to one's DAC? All the other services can be accessed using a music server (Bluesound Node, Raspberry Pi, etc.) but Apple plays in its own universe.

Instead of a Bluesound or Raspberry or whatever you could use a Mac mini (headless). It runs everything from Qobuz, Tidal, Spotify to Apple Music incl. Apple Music Classical if and when that comes out. As well as your own media from SSD or NAS, of course.

Most of the streaming apps and music players have remote control apps for iPhone/iPad. so you can stick the Mac mini in the audio rack and control everything from the comfort of your listening chair.
 

MarkS

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 3, 2021
Messages
1,062
Likes
1,503
You can stream wirelessly directly from any Apple device (iphone, ipad, mac) to any Airplay-equipped receiver. Add-on receivers like the WiiM Mini cost around $100 if your system does not already have Airplay.

If you have only non-Apple devices, then you probably want something other than Apple Music ...
 

Sashoir

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
118
Likes
140
I'm not sure if it's any good or would be of interest, but I was just served an advert for Vialma, which is apparently a specialist jazz and classical streaming service (I'd never heard of it, so it may be new). I'll check it out this week-end and try to compare it to the other services I've used.
 

Sashoir

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 15, 2020
Messages
118
Likes
140
I'm not sure if it's any good or would be of interest, but I was just served an advert for Vialma, which is apparently a specialist jazz and classical streaming service (I'd never heard of it, so it may be new). I'll check it out this week-end and try to compare it to the other services I've

I'm not sure if it's any good or would be of interest, but I was just served an advert for Vialma, which is apparently a specialist jazz and classical streaming service (I'd never heard of it, so it may be new). I'll check it out this week-end and try to compare it to the other services I've used.
Well, I would suggest that unless Vialma has something in its catalogue which is missing from your other service(s) which you *adore*, then Vialma is best left alone for the time being.
Search is poor. For instance, "Franz Josef Selig" returned "Franz-Josef Selig" as the last artist result (after, e.g. "Jos van Immerseel", "Franz Konwitschny", "Franz Kafka", "Christian Franz", and about 70 others. It also takes a fairly long time to return results (which is not really pertinent to usability, but indicates to me some pretty ordinary coding for a product that's apparently been out for two+ years).
Metadata are poor. For example, '"Philly" Joe Jones' and '"Philly Joe" Jones' are characterised as two separate artists who appeared on different albums. As another example, "Rienzi WWV49" and "RIENZI WWV49" are characterised as two different works. Moreover, if you select one, the recordings are given by orchestra, conductor, and year (fine), but don't differentiate between overture only or full opera (to be frank, I don't know whether I'd have the appetite for either, but it was just the work that popped into my head, like stay-puffed the marshmallow man and Dan Aykroyd).
Catalogue is not huge unless you're looking for Mahler cycles or other oft recorded works, in which case you might ask, what the point of another streaming service is.
Discovery doesn't seem particularly good, but to be fair it doesn't have thousands of my selections upon which to base recommendations.
They have a "free trial" (though read the Google play store reviews for more about this-I am only on day two, so I've encountered no problems), so you can try for yourself if you're interested, but I'd not recommend it to anyone unless they had a particular hatred of all the other streaming services.
 
OP
L

LuvTheMusic

Active Member
Joined
Jun 7, 2020
Messages
111
Likes
137
Another very brief update: I ditched Amazon Music because the search function remains frustrating, and no other aspects of the offering made up for that. Not that there are any real offerings specific to classical music (or jazz) for things such as new releases or recommended albums anyway. So for now, Qobuz remains.

On a related topic, I saw a report from someone who claims who have decompiled early release code for the next version of iOS and claims that this contains a reference to Apple Classical (or a similar name). Thus, there is speculation that a classical music service, presumably based on the old Primephonic purchase, could be unveiled at the next big Apple event in a few weeks. We've heard that line before, but maybe this time....
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,636
Likes
2,809
Yes it is in the code.

Apple didn't buy Primephonic to do nothing with it.

It's taken longer than anyone hope but Apple Classical is coming.
 

Dismayed

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Messages
387
Likes
404
Location
Boston, MA
I've been happy with Idagio. The catalog is large and easy to search, and streaming is lossless. The annual cost amounts to the cost of about a half dozen CDs.
 

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,734
Yes it is in the code.

Apple didn't buy Primephonic to do nothing with it.

It's taken longer than anyone hope but Apple Classical is coming.
Any update on that?
I am considering idagio, out of despair.
..but..
My subscriptions bills are creeping up.. Insidious and substantial.. without realizing it , you could be paying $200/month! or more...


Peace.
 

JanesJr1

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Jun 9, 2021
Messages
505
Likes
450
Location
MA
Any update on that?
I am considering idagio, out of despair.
..but..
My subscriptions bills are creeping up.. Insidious and substantial.. without realizing it , you could be paying $200/month! or more...


Peace.
What's wrong with Idagio? Why "out of despair"? It's got everything classical HD, the price isn't bad, the search capabilities are much, much better than, say, Amazon, and the music-introduction features are very good. I get Amazon+Idagio and save a lot vs Tidal or Qobuz ...
 

Chaconne

Active Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2021
Messages
152
Likes
266
My listening is probably 90+ percent classical, and I have both Qobuz and Idagio. I like them equally well. The search engines seem roughly equivalent (though different) but I suspect Idagio has more powerful nuances that I have not figured out yet. The one serious advantage Qobuz has is that it alphabetizes your favorites by composer. Idagio just seems or place them in random order. (Does anyone know of a way to organize them on Idagio?)
 

theREALdotnet

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 11, 2022
Messages
1,181
Likes
2,036
I might try Idagio one day, but for me the biggest draw card of Qobuz is that it is integrated with Roon and Audirvana. I don’t like to have to use yet another player app.
 

FrantzM

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
4,337
Likes
7,734
What's wrong with Idagio? Why "out of despair"? It's got everything classical HD, the price isn't bad, the search capabilities are much, much better than, say, Amazon, and the music-introduction features are very good. I get Amazon+Idagio and save a lot vs Tidal or Qobuz ...
Nothing. I am exploring it, but need to cut down on my subscriptions; there are redundancies/overlaps, I have Spotify, Amazon Music, Apple Music and now Idagio.. then the movies/shows/series subscriptions with Apple, Netflix, Amazon, Disney+, HBO, etc, there are others I can't recall. plus my sports with NFL, NBA, MLB, plus the Soccer channel plus the ... channel plus the National Geographic channels plus the Curiosity Stream, plus the Formula 1 CHannel, plus the MotoGrand Prix Channel, plus ... plus ... .. It becomes quite substantial after a while, especially when one realizes that one doesn't watch many of these on a regular basis...
Subscriptions were supposed to be an economical way to enjoy streams.. If any of us take some time to realize how many of these one is paying, then it become important, even essential to limit their numbers. I don't use Amazon Music at all, the interface is simply bad, strangely not too far behind is Apple Music UI, not to the standard of Apple. The best interfaces so far IMHO is that of Spotify and perhaps Roon.. Alas, ROON is one more subscription and requires some good hardware to run it well...
I had some hope that the Apple acquisition of Primephonic would have resulted in a better (Western) Classical Music experience Not yet...
A bit off topic. Apple has been punting lately .... another subject but their latest integration of Homekit with Matters is bad not "poor".. BAD. No adverb, and I still don't find Apple Music intuitive and its algorithm is way below Spotify's and ...

You get the point

Peace.
 

MarnixM

Member
Joined
Sep 28, 2020
Messages
92
Likes
98
Location
Netherlands
Idargio is good, has a good search function, is a complete catralog for the most part, and has better classical suggestions and play lists.

I also use Amazon HD instead of Qobuz or Tidal, to save money on non-clasical titles and and thus pay for Idagio, but also to use for classical searches, which may surprise. While you are absolutely correct that Amazon has a lousy search function for classical, the underlying catalog is a lot more complete than it seems at first. Amazon's search responses limit the number of recordings that satisfy the criteria for an individual search. If I search for a more obscure recording and it doesn't come back in the initial search response, I enter new criteria and I usually find what I want. With practice, it doesn't take that much effort.

Maybe I'm just accepting inconvenience in return for saving money for lossless recordings, but between Amazon and Idagio I'm also rarely left out in the cold on classical searches, and I have a huge general-interest catalog as well.

I'd be interested to hear from others how complete the Qobuz classical catalog is; I briefly sampled it once with some semi-rare searches, and it didn't do all that well. But it probably wasn't a complete or fair test.
For seveal years I have a prime subscription to Qobuz and I am very content with the offer and the performance. As far as I encounter the classical choice is complete, with the restriction that albums that came out before 2014/2015 (around the commercial start of Qobuz) and did not had a new release are sometimes missing. What I do mis is a enhanced search window, to make a faster and more accurate selection. No Tidal; don't believe in MQA.
 
Top Bottom