Whatcha think about "pro" amps from Crown, QSC, etc?

[jhaider]

FWIW, our main system uses all "pro" amps - Crown DCI Network. They have the usual downside - fan noise - but they're in a different room so that's fine. They’re definitely not as whisper quiet as the ATI AT4007 we used in the old house. That’s probably the best 200W/8 Ohm amp in the world in terms of noise floor. But with the gains set properly DCI Network is not far off from BSS BLU-50 + ATI AT4007. And DCI8|600n is about 1/4 the weight for more than double the power into 8 Ohms (plus an extra channel), which matters when you have to carry them down into a basement.

We also use a Crown pro amp - XLS2502 - to drive two subs in another system. It’s in the same room and I’ve yet to hear the fan.

I don’t have experience with other brands.

 

[Bugal1998]

For what it's (probably not) worth, I use Crown Itech 5000HDs with JBL M2s, and I think they sound wonderful. I'll admit to being curious what a Benchmark amp or similar might sound like, but I have no FOMO and no plans to switch.

I've also used the same model amp with JBL 5628 subwoofers with satisfying results.

Amps are in an equipment rack outside of the listening room so fan noise is irrelevant.

 

[Emulator II]

They are ugly.

I like them.

 

[Rednaxela]

I can see why.

 

[gnarly]

I use QSC amps along with the Q-Sys processing infrastructure. I have a bunch of different amp models to power different sized driver needs, and a lot of DIY speaker building.
Install or even touring amps make a ton of sense to me, compared to home audio. XLR, +4 dB line inputs, speakon outs, clip limiting, instant off, variable attenuation, pricing that reflects function over form, etc, etc...make audio amps often seem nuts to me.

That said, the PL and CX models have some fan noise but i find it tolerable. Network CXD-Q amps fans are plain loud imo. (Someday, I'll build a soundproof rack i think.)

I don't think hiss with sensitive drivers is (or rather should be) an issue, for almost any amp.
Line level analog attenuation either built into the amp, or inserted physically with a padding device, into the line going to the amp, allows proper gain structure to kill hiss.
Also, many proamps have selectable gain/ input sensitivity.
There's simply no reason to not solve hiss problems... easily, ime ( i use high sens compression drivers)

 

[Philbo King]

An amp is an amp... but

As regards PA systems and studio monitors:
"Pro" amps will tolerate more abuse, have built in limiting to protect against being overdriven, and generally outlast a consumer hifi amp by a factor of 3x or better. They are designed to tolerate frequent moving, so mechanical and physical design is much more robust.

They are slowly going out of common use, though, as powered speakers tend toward dominating the market in new equipment. That saves having to haul huge reels of 4 or 6 gauge speaker cables to every show.

The one time I saw a pro amp fail was in the '70s. A band, for whom I was doing front-of-house mixing (the guy sitting at the mix console), had a Crown DC300 amp fail so that the output got 80VDC fed to the speaker outputs. This resulted in the voice coil in one the speakers shooting out through the grill cloth, over the heads of the audience, and hitting the back wall a few hundred yards away. Pretty spectacular,..

 

[Emulator II]

The now discontinued 2x350 watt Yamaha P3500s was measured here: https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum...mpli-yamaha-p3500s-mise-a-jour-t30056383.html It measured very well, and the fan never came on in domestic use. I bought the 2x250 watt P2500s for my son, and it has been impeccable.

I keep reading that the fans on the Yamahas don't come on when used at home. This is not the case for my P3500S. If I increase the volume accordingly and play bass-heavy tracks, the fan kicks in after 20 to 30 minutes, depending on the room temperature. However, the music is then definitely so loud that the fan can no longer be heard. But with a measured sensitivity of 85dB, my speakers are not particularly effective.

 

[tmtomh]

My Audiophonics Purifi-based amp vastly outperforms most pro amps on distortion, noise, and probably crosstalk. But I very much doubt I could actually hear that performance difference in a sighted test, let alone a blind one.

So I think most of these pro amps are very capable, and their durability is a major plus.

Personally, however, I won't ever spend my own money on an amp - or any other hi-fi component - that has a fan in it. I have too much experience with not being able to "unhear" low-level noise in my system, once I hear it, whether that noise is hiss, ground loop hum, or a fan. That inability to "unhear" is a psychological phenomenon, but it's one I experience so while it's objectively meaningless and not real, it's real for me, because it bothers the crap out of me.

Also, when I buy an amp I want something as close as I can get to 100% certainty that the amp will contribute absolutely zero self-noise to whatever low-level noise is in my system. As with fan noise, I recognize that very low-level hiss or self-noise from the amp should not be a concern if it's not audible from more than a foot or two away. But for me personally, if I hear it as I walk up to the system to change a disc or turn the system off, it drives me nuts and I have a tough time unhearing it.

So given my personal preferences, these amps are a hard pass for me. But I recognize that their downsides might not be a big deal - and maybe not even downsides at all - for others.

 

[dguillor]

Some of the pro gear stores have a program where you can return an item for any reason within a few weeks. Just try one.

 

[puppet]

I use a Rane MA6S ... has a fan but it's pretty quiet. Too bad there aren't more multichannel amps that use this design available today.

https://www.fullcompass.com/common/files/2642-MA6SDataSheet.pdf

Rane MA 6S Schematic | Manualzz

View online (4 pages) or download PDF (256 KB) Rane MA 6S, MA 6 User manual • MA 6S, MA 6 PDF manual download and more Rane online manuals

manualzz.com

 

[Mojo Warrior]

The pro class D amps like the Crown XLS 1002 make a compelling argument paired with the new Tekton Pendragon 2 Ohm speakers !

 

[Chrispy]

They are ugly.

So are these

 

[Chrispy]

The title of this thread should be "what do you think of PA amps?" Pro implies studios as well as PA and there different applications. When I think of pro amps I think of Brystons.

Well the subforum is called pro audio. There are music uses, not just pa, so pa to my mind is much more limited range (and more applicable to the speaker involved) than the amps from Crown, QSC, etc. I used to do logistics work for many touring musical acts.....can't say I can remember a Bryston on any of the equipment lists....

 

[Jaxjax]

The now discontinued 2x350 watt Yamaha P3500s was measured here: https://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum...mpli-yamaha-p3500s-mise-a-jour-t30056383.html It measured very well, and the fan never came on in domestic use. I bought the 2x250 watt P2500s for my son, and it has been impeccable.

I run a P2500S in a secondary system & another Yamaha P2075 in a bedroom system. My main is all pro using Pascal. I don't hear any reason to not use Yamaha Pro on home hifi. Mine are dead quite & fans are none issue. The 2075 doesn't even have one. I would run a 1- 2k pro amp before I would ever spend 5-20k on hifi amps. I've had them & would never do it again. I would take that money & buy upper end active ATC.

 

[Matthias McCready]

From my perspective:

Commercial products are designed with a specific result in mind, and there better be a reason to justify the price of product. Price usually correlates closely with performance. If it doesn't companies do not purchase it.

Residential products, "better" is in the eye of the beholder, and the price to performance ratio can be, "but dust on the wind."

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There are certainly exceptions to the above, but the residential "home-audio" world is considerably more obtuse.

 

[Chrispy]

Food for thought for the sharks in the pool so far. What about features like attenuation/gain adjustment? Clipping meters? Linking/accessibility for network control? Other things many consumer amps just don't have....

 

[Matthias McCready]

Food for thought for the sharks in the pool so far. What about features like attenuation/gain adjustment? Clipping meters? Linking/accessibility for network control? Other things many consumer amps just don't have....

Let's not forget monitoring temp/humidity and actively accounting for high frequency air loss over distance...


.... Oh you don't deal with that? I guess you just need a much LARGER living room!

Ok not useful for at home, but still very cool!

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On a serious note most commercial amps use standard computer fans. So even the fans did turn on in residential, which is unlikely, quieter fan options exist are quite easy to install.

 

[Chrispy]

Nah, those are just bonus features....I'm talkin' utility, man!

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

Food for thought for the sharks in the pool so far. What about features like attenuation/gain adjustment? Clipping meters? Linking/accessibility for network control? Other things many consumer amps just don't have....

Those, and remote 12 volt control are the types of features I was referring to earlier that home amplifiers have that pro amplifiers typically do not have.

 

[Chrispy]

Pro amps are made to be rugged and reliable, with less of an am emphasis on ultimate low noise/distortion. Home amplifiers are designed to have lowest noise, lowest distortion and features which are more likely to be applicable to home use.

I've designed both and we make both.

So what about attenuation/gain control or clipping meters? Not good for consumers? Somewhat, but not particularly, significant differences in distortiion levels are an issue? Or is that more in relation to their power spectrum? I know you've mentioned you even prefer at home amps you guys don't design/make at work, too and just trying to get some expansion here on how specific aspects may affect even simple consumer use....