Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[srkbear]

Same issue here… now shows PCM instead of MQA/MQA./OFS :|
I’m guessing they used the coding for the new D90LE and messed up the merge for the D90SE.

Mine is still playing MQA just fine. Has anyone tried the new valve and transistor settings?

 

[srkbear]

actually it looks like the mac download is messed up- I just downloaded it on both an intel mac and an apple silicon and on both that is not actually a valid mac app- won't open on either, and the actual executable thinks its a text file.
edit: oh it's just permissions- added execute perms to the actual executable and it works fine now on both apple silicon and intel. messy, topping, messy!
also the readme in the mac download talks about running 'the .exe'

I installed mine using the Windows updater through Parallels Desktop on my Mac. Couldn’t get the Mac firmware file to open.

 

[srkbear]

What is the difference in the topping d90le and d90se? Is it only the mqa support for $100 more?

I think they are purporting to have even better DNR and SINAD than the D90se, which seems completely ridiculous at this point—we’re already way past audible differences and I’m perfectly happy with my D90se. The A90 refresh honestly seems more interesting.

It also does appear that they’re ditching MQA on this one—although I wonder whether they may have just left in the XMOS chip and have it inactive due to licensing costs. The cost of the chip is nominal, but the licensing costs are considerable.

I make up that this is their answer to the Gustard x18 in terms of price point. Who knows, maybe they’re planning on assessing demand for MQA before pursuing licensing, or maybe they left out the chip altogether. Since the Gustard has MQA and demand for it is still very high, I think it’s a curious move.

I know that it’s very fashionable on here to act blasé about MQA, and I’m not asking for any lengthy lectures on the evils of it—I’m already well-aware. It has nothing to do with the sound quality—in fact Meridian and Tidal have despicably bought exclusive rights to the highest quality (“provenance”) masters for a huge number of titles, so despite the myths that it’s inferior because it’s “lossy”, a considerable number of available albums in MQA format DO sound better than their non-MQA counterparts.

The actual evils are totally about the obsolescence of smaller file containers within a year or less after MQA was released, and how they used the ruse of smaller bandwidth demands to trick a huge segment of manufacturers in the industry to buy into their much bigger long-range masterplan—to sign themselves into contractual long-term captivity for the rights to have that MQA badge on their products, in order to meet consumer demand for access to those masters via Tidal. And now all of us are stuck footing the bill for these costs whether we use Tidal or not.

Major record companies and streaming services are in deep with these licensing covenants for the unseeable future for whole swaths of their catalogs, so those manufacturers who eschew MQA capability are doing so at the expense of denying their consumers access to these masters. And for that reason, I do continue to use Tidal, along with Qobuz, HighResAudio and a huge catalog of FLAC/DSD files, because in many cases the Tidal versions are just better. And if this new d90LE does ditch MQA I have no regrets keeping my D90SE.

Honestly, I can’t fathom any reason for existing owners of the D90SE to “upgrade” to the d90LE based on existing information. The d90SE is as resolving, accurate and quiet a DAC anyone with human ears could hope for. New buyers can opt for the LE to save $100 bucks, or they can opt for the Gustard, which has indistinguishable performance and still offers MQA.

 

[nagster]

Yes, I understand that. But I am disappointed that Topping is even thinking along these lines. They shouldn't be wasting resources figuring out how to add colorations. If anything, they should be working to remove even the hint of coloration. It's the same old BS that I've been rolling my eyes at for fifty some odd years.

Does the new firmware actually fix any known issues, or is the only purpose to add these colorations?

EDIT: I just went to the Topping page, and I see that they did add at least some substantiative features, channel balance could be beneficial to some. And for those experiencing the display issue that's mentioned on Topping's site, I suppose that's worthwhile.

But overall, I don't find this update to be worth my time at all. Just my $0.02, YMMV etc...

Did they break? I don't think you need to worry.

Especially in recent toppings, low distortion and low noise seem to be the top priority.
Is seasoning and effects their goal?
No, it's probably ironic.
"Musicality" "Vacuum tube sound" "Warm" HiFi equipment. And people who admire them.
Or maybe you just want to let the user know that it's easy to make such a sound.
Necessary for music production. Not required for HiFi playback.
But well, it's a casual suggestion. You can enjoy it for a while. That's all.

 

[Jimbob54]

It has nothing to do with the sound quality—in fact Meridian and Tidal have despicably bought exclusive rights to the highest quality (“provenance”) masters for a huge number of titles,

Not wishing to make this an MQA thread so feel free to PM me it, but do you have a link/ source for this. Doesnt accord with my understanding of how the model worked. I thought the relevant rights holder just needed to sign off on what was sent to be MQA'd as being the one they were happy to be MQA'd, not MQA getting exclusive rights to use that particular (pre MQA) master.

 

[Barryfromholland]

Downloaded the new software for d90se.
it was difficult with a MacBook Air, but at last I succeeded. With help from a forum site. It went wrong the first time and then I uploaded the wrong drivers. But fortunately was able to upload the right software so now it works fine.

now listening to the valve setting, and I must say I like it!
very smooth and "organic" sound, easy on the ears, a bit mellow on my dyn heritage special’s and audiophonics purifi power amp.

only thing I would like in a new update is to maximize output level, so my kid cannot overdrive the speakers. -10db would be great.

 

[Barryfromholland]

MQA works fine btw, sometimes use it with paradise radio, sounds good, same as cd quality standard flac stream.

 

[Barryfromholland]

listening to valve sound profile and switching back and forth, it is rather subtle. Never had a tube amplifier so can not compare. I like effect off the most, but nice to try, thanks topping.

d90se is a great pre-amp/dac for the price.

I use it XLR to purifi power amp and rca to monolith sub. Ideal integration like this.

 

[srkbear]

Not wishing to make this an MQA thread so feel free to PM me it, but do you have a link/ source for this. Doesnt accord with my understanding of how the model worked. I thought the relevant rights holder just needed to sign off on what was sent to be MQA'd as being the one they were happy to be MQA'd, not MQA getting exclusive rights to use that particular (pre MQA) master.

Let me see what I can find. I’m inclined to defer to your expertise on any of these matters, but this is what was explained to me by one of the disgruntled, former lead designers from one of the bigwig audiophile manufacturers during a private PM exchange about MQA awhile back, when he was in the midst of a licensing battle with MQA for one of their streamers. Will pursue any further discussions with you via PM, of course!

 

[lam6630]

D90 SE version v1.87 firmware update
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/649992.html
Has anyone updated yet, please guide to update. Thank

 

[RandomEar]

D90 SE version v1.87 firmware update
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/649992.html
Has anyone updated yet, please guide to update. Thank

The instructions are provided in the firmware update package. Did you check the ZIP?

 

[Rottmannash]

D90 SE version v1.87 firmware update
https://www.tpdz.net/newsinfo/649992.html
Has anyone updated yet, please guide to update. Thank

Easy to install. Couldn't tell a difference w/ the "valve", "transistor" and "clear" settings.

 

[rlwings]

Just installed the newest D90SE firmware today... I have some thoughts: First and foremost I was immediately shocked (in a good way) that Topping seems to have 'played' with the sound. (PCM over USB (and RCA) at 5V (setting) with driver set to 32bit@88.2) - Tidal. My god, the spaciousness, detail, presence and layering has definitely been 'tweaked'. Bass is tighter and more defined. All my favorite songs sound clearer and more well defined... (as if this DAC really needed any of this).

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe it's the placebo effect, but somebody else did mentioned this as well... I know this isn't the place to discuss subjectivity but I have to ask. Has anybody else noticed a change in the soundstage of the D90SE after installing the firmware update?

P.S. Couldn't hear any difference between "Valve" and "Transistor", much like the 7 barely distinguishable roll-off filters. Subtle at best and probably non-functional.
P.P.S Tidal dropped an update today so who knows, maybe they're the ones messing with the sound.
P.P.S Where's Johny? Why isn't he chiming in on his latest work on the D90SE firmware?

Peace all

 

[Veri]

@JohnYang1997 doesn't do everything at Topping! Plenty of other engineers and employees that can update existing device firmware

 

[rlwings]

@JohnYang1997 doesn't do everything at Topping! Plenty of other engineers and employees that can update existing device firmware

Fair enough... Just thought he'd want to come back and follow up on his creation since he was here during it's launch. Got the feeling he was pretty proud of it.

 

[nelamvr6]

There is a lot of subjectivism creeping into the discussions here.

I believe it is highly unlikely that anyone would be able to detect any difference between this firmware and the previously installed firmware in a properly conducted double-blind test. That is, unless one invoked one of the new "voices" introduced with this firmware, or to a lesser degree of likelihood selected a different filter.

If this firmware is actually making audible differences, then it is broken.

 

[lam6630]

D90 SE firmware update v1.87: Success on MAC pro M1

 

[Stephen Bayley]

New firmware updated. Sounds better, snappier and improved micro details. I know the technical reasons why that is unlikely, and many may respond in that frame, but that is what I'm hearing. If I'm deluding myself then I am really enjoying the delusion. I have a resolving system with a D90SE, Pre90, Purifi monblocks (new March Audio P501's) and B&W 702's and a deep ROON library of high definition recordings, so expect to notice some changes in delivery.
I'm only 2 hours into the listening session. I'll give it a few days and see if the delusion wanes; it is certainly possible it will, however I'm enjoying the moment!

 

[nelamvr6]

This website grew up around a community that was drawn to reviews based on science. There are a LOT of forums that are more attuned to subjective observations.

You are welcome to your delusions. But I hope you don't take it too personally when I say that you are deluded, you are experiencing a placebo effect.

You may be enjoying your DAC more because of this delusion, that's not uncommon. But it is a delusion, nonetheless.

 

[Eddy H.]

I wish we could change the sound settings with the remote