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Wharfedale Diamond 12 Owner's Thread
- Thread starter MarkWinston
- Start date
I would say the only drawback of 12.2 is its size, which is quite big. For other things, 12.2 is better overall and I also feels that 12.2 without sub still sounds better than 12.1 with sub. For loudness, there is no difference as it depends on your listening volume.
I'm not a fan of metal, but for classical and jazz, I think 12.0 should be fine. I like orchestral and instrumental music. That's why 12.2 make a big difference for me (especially for drum instruments).
I'm not a fan of metal, but for classical and jazz, I think 12.0 should be fine. I like orchestral and instrumental music. That's why 12.2 make a big difference for me (especially for drum instruments).
Other than bass, is 12.2 more airy and has more clarity in the midrange than 12.0? Also, which would you rather have on your 160x80cm desk near a wall?
REK2575
Active Member
I'm using an SMSL AO200
Has more than enough juice for nearfield / small office. Drives the 12.0s quite handily.
actually, for desktop use in my opinion, 12.0 is already quite large. 12.2 would be far too big, unless you use a very very large desktop. I think Diamond 12 series are more suitable for listening room.
I also use 12.2 in my working room, but I put it on the cabinet at the end of the room, not putting it on the desktop.
I also use 12.2 in my working room, but I put it on the cabinet at the end of the room, not putting it on the desktop.
I have 12.1 and 12.2, but I don't have 12.0. Comparing 12.1 vs 12.2, for bass, of course, 12.2 is a big winner. For mid, I still like 12.2 more and felt that it has more clarity. The difference is quite subtle, but for instrumental music it is quite noticeable.
By the way, if you live in an apartment, I think, most of the time, your listening volume would not be that loud, and this subtle difference may not be noticeable.
By the way, if you live in an apartment, I think, most of the time, your listening volume would not be that loud, and this subtle difference may not be noticeable.
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REK2575
Active Member
I agree that the 12.0s are about as large as is feasible for a desktop -- assuming you want at least some of that desktop real-estate for other things! For me, they're the max size my desk could reasonably accommodate. I had been using a pair of PSB P3s, which were kind of the ideal desktop size -- about 80% the size of the 12.0. Problem is I didn't like how they sounded. I put up with them for a year and then upgraded to the 12.0 and it's no contest -- 12.0 is a much superior speaker.
HansHolland
Active Member
I have the 12.1.
But seeing the positive posts about the 12.2, I would love to see the 12.2 reviewed here at ASR.
But seeing the positive posts about the 12.2, I would love to see the 12.2 reviewed here at ASR.
I use both Aiyima A07 and Loxjie A30 with Diamond 12. For Aiyima A07, I use TempoTec Sonata HD Pro as DAC. At first, I would expect Loxjie A30 to outperform. Surprisingly, in my own experience, they sounds equally well.
After I use Umik-1 for measurement, I starts to know the reason. For DAC, we'd prefer it flat or within 0.2dB. For amp, Aiyima lost around 0.8dB around 10-20k hz. For speaker, it is within 3dB. When you account for room mode, the range becomes within 5dB.
From those number, you starts to see that 0.8dB lost is not a big thing (when you could have +- 5dB overall). In addition, frequency above 10k are not sensitive to human ear. For my ear, I could only hear up to 16.5k.
Lastly, if you look at this chart, you would see that very few musical instruments go above 10k frequency.
Still, I like Loxjie a lot more for its design, and digital volume control. Aiyima A07 has analog volume control, which is quite difficult to tune and remember the level. But I have nothing to complain about Aiyima A07. For its price, it's a great product.
After I use Umik-1 for measurement, I starts to know the reason. For DAC, we'd prefer it flat or within 0.2dB. For amp, Aiyima lost around 0.8dB around 10-20k hz. For speaker, it is within 3dB. When you account for room mode, the range becomes within 5dB.
From those number, you starts to see that 0.8dB lost is not a big thing (when you could have +- 5dB overall). In addition, frequency above 10k are not sensitive to human ear. For my ear, I could only hear up to 16.5k.
Lastly, if you look at this chart, you would see that very few musical instruments go above 10k frequency.
Still, I like Loxjie a lot more for its design, and digital volume control. Aiyima A07 has analog volume control, which is quite difficult to tune and remember the level. But I have nothing to complain about Aiyima A07. For its price, it's a great product.
Attachments
The Diamond series is an excellent budget line. I own the slightly earlier Diamond 220 (comparable to the 12.1) in a secundary system. I am currently using it with a modest 2x25 watt Tangent Amp 50 amplifier, but I have also used it with an 1970s Kenwood 2x23 watt receiver that clearly outperforms the anaemic Tangent amp. In both cases used with the analogue output of a Chromecast Audio. I think the speakers are good enough to deserve a Yamaha AS201, the cheapest good amplifier that I know of (at 200 euros).
Does it distort at high volumes?
For my listening level (peak level ~70 dB), no distortion as both amps has SINAD around 80dB. For music, 70dB is already quite loud. If I live in an apartment, I'm quite sure my neighbour would knock my door at this level.
Also, if you look at psychoacoustics, there is an audio masking effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics#Masking_effects). So, even when distortion is there, it would not be audible when you listening to music. I forgot to mention that I also use Denon RCD-N9 with Wharfedale 12 as well. The result is the same. They sounds equally well.
In my opinion, if you use good devices, SINAD level in DAC is already overkill. For amp, SINAD level is already enough for typical listening volume.
Also, if you look at psychoacoustics, there is an audio masking effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychoacoustics#Masking_effects). So, even when distortion is there, it would not be audible when you listening to music. I forgot to mention that I also use Denon RCD-N9 with Wharfedale 12 as well. The result is the same. They sounds equally well.
In my opinion, if you use good devices, SINAD level in DAC is already overkill. For amp, SINAD level is already enough for typical listening volume.
Got the 12.0 for 200eur off Amazon. It's amazing in every way. I had R1700t before. If anyone is reading this and wants to buy R1700t, just don't, save for this, trust me.
Diamond 12.0 > Aiyima A07 > ifi zen dac v1
I thought because R1700t had 4" woofer, that this would also sound bad and lacking in bass. Not the case at all, the bass is really nice and well done, the bass actually is in soundstage now if that makes sense, bass is right in front of me even at very low volumes and it sounds just right, whole other league from edifier. It's definitely not a subwoofer bass, not even close, but it's really good for what it is and reaches lower than edifier. Edifier sounded wrong, this sounds right.
One major thing from all my other audio gear, bunch of headphones, iems, edifiers. The high frequencies like hi hats and the like, are not piercing or fatiguing in any way, they are just right. So now I have great bass I enjoy and great high frequencies, something I never had before. But thats not all, mids are amazing, it's like a really good in ear monitor but with huge stage and amazing imaging, big sound. This are my first good speakers.
You were right about 12.2 being too big, 12.0 is already decently sized for desktop use.
One thing though, vocals are bit quieter than I would like, but I don't think it's a dip but just flat fr, I had similar experience with flat iems. I just probably prefer more forward vocals.
Diamond 12.0 > Aiyima A07 > ifi zen dac v1
I thought because R1700t had 4" woofer, that this would also sound bad and lacking in bass. Not the case at all, the bass is really nice and well done, the bass actually is in soundstage now if that makes sense, bass is right in front of me even at very low volumes and it sounds just right, whole other league from edifier. It's definitely not a subwoofer bass, not even close, but it's really good for what it is and reaches lower than edifier. Edifier sounded wrong, this sounds right.
One major thing from all my other audio gear, bunch of headphones, iems, edifiers. The high frequencies like hi hats and the like, are not piercing or fatiguing in any way, they are just right. So now I have great bass I enjoy and great high frequencies, something I never had before. But thats not all, mids are amazing, it's like a really good in ear monitor but with huge stage and amazing imaging, big sound. This are my first good speakers.
You were right about 12.2 being too big, 12.0 is already decently sized for desktop use.
One thing though, vocals are bit quieter than I would like, but I don't think it's a dip but just flat fr, I had similar experience with flat iems. I just probably prefer more forward vocals.
After 2 weeks with 12.0
it's really nice for tv shows, most of my playlist(rock, metal, classical), youtube and such.
For electronic music and rap I find myself reaching for my hifiman he400se headphones most of the time.
Movies are alright, need to up the volume to hear voices, so not really usable at night when people are sleeping. I do enjoy movies with it a lot more than with my headphones due to dynamic range and stage.
If your playlist is electronic music and rap mostly, you should go with a bigger speaker or some powered speakers in this price range.
Did any 12.0 owner ever hear jbl 305 or kali lp6v2 to compare? I'm quite curious.
it's really nice for tv shows, most of my playlist(rock, metal, classical), youtube and such.
For electronic music and rap I find myself reaching for my hifiman he400se headphones most of the time.
Movies are alright, need to up the volume to hear voices, so not really usable at night when people are sleeping. I do enjoy movies with it a lot more than with my headphones due to dynamic range and stage.
If your playlist is electronic music and rap mostly, you should go with a bigger speaker or some powered speakers in this price range.
Did any 12.0 owner ever hear jbl 305 or kali lp6v2 to compare? I'm quite curious.
It is easier for a headphone to achieve lower bass than loud speaker, especially for in-ears/air tight. Diamond 12.0 is the smallest model that reach only 65-70 Hz. So, I'm not surprised that you switch to hifiman he400se headphones for those music genres. It would be a better comparison if you add a good subwoofer or compare it with Diamond 12.2.
