JBL A180 Tower Speaker Review

[Jmudrick]

Got me wondering where the A170 fits in (which i own but am not currently using) in terms of distortion profile and tweakability .

 

[tw 2022]

You will be surprised how bad dispersion will be when you have two drivers at two wavelength apart at the crossover point.

Speaker design is not this simple.

You do realize you are responding to one of the top crossover designers there is??Edit .. I have a pair of modded speakers he worked on.. He kinda knows what he's doing..

 

[asr1837373829w936q9]

Any observations on distortion and sound quality on the A170?

IMHO, A170 sounds much better than A180 side by side. A180 is too bright.
I’ll quote @amirm:

First impression was that of piercing highs, an effect that would not go away.

At the same time I don’t see a reason why it can’t sound much better (at least as good as A170). I’m very curious about a crossover mod from experts in this area.

 

[amirm]

Well, if you all keep tabs on sales on the other A series models, I am game in buying and testing the others.

 

[tw 2022]

Well, if you all keep tabs on sales on the other A series models, I am game in buying and testing the others.

I'd like to see Dennis's mod on the klippel...

 

[eardiggler]

I worked up a revised crossover for the 180 last night and cobbled the board together today. I jettisoned the 2.5 architecture, which requires a lot more components that JBL could have afforded to provide in this economy-level speaker. A properly done 2.5 would have a small advantage in vertical dispersion linearity, since interference between the two drivers would be reduced due to the lower crossover point of the bottom woofer. But I don't see any other advantage, and the circuit they used produced a huge THD-inducing peak in the bottom woofer. By running both woofers up to the 2 kHz crossover point, it's possible to trap out any woofer peaks with a single lrc network. I'll probably diddle with this after I listen carefully, but the brightness is gone and so is the distortion. What used to be around 3% THD@90 dB a little above 1 kHz is now .3%. Here's the mod, followed by the stock. The tweeter was disconnected when I measured the stock because I was trying to find the source of the distortion (which was the woofer).
View attachment 212761

View attachment 212763

I own these and I'm very interested in what you come up with here for a revised crossover.

 

[asr1837373829w936q9]

I worked up a revised crossover for the 180 last night and cobbled the board together today. I jettisoned the 2.5 architecture, which requires a lot more components that JBL could have afforded to provide in this economy-level speaker. A properly done 2.5 would have a small advantage in vertical dispersion linearity, since interference between the two drivers would be reduced due to the lower crossover point of the bottom woofer. But I don't see any other advantage, and the circuit they used produced a huge THD-inducing peak in the bottom woofer. By running both woofers up to the 2 kHz crossover point, it's possible to trap out any woofer peaks with a single lrc network. I'll probably diddle with this after I listen carefully, but the brightness is gone and so is the distortion. What used to be around 3% THD@90 dB a little above 1 kHz is now .3%. Here's the mod, followed by the stock. The tweeter was disconnected when I measured the stock because I was trying to find the source of the distortion (which was the woofer).
View attachment 212761

View attachment 212763

Awesome! Please share the crossover mod when you’re done with it

 

[Jmudrick]

IMHO, A170 sounds much better than A180 side by side. A180 is too bright.
I’ll quote @amirm:

At the same time I don’t see a reason why it can sound much better (better than A170). I’m very curious about a crossover mod from experts in this area.

The A170 sounds fine to me. John Atkinson did measure a rising high end from 6K.

 

[amirm]

I'd like to see Dennis's mod on the klippel...

Sure, could do that too.

 

[Beave]

Inside JBL Studio A180 - crossover filter photos:

update - also attached service manualView attachment 212771

To clarify, this is for the Studio 180, not the Stage A180 being discussed here.

 

[Beave]

That is on just one of the woofers, the bottom one, which compensates for the baffle step. The other one is directly connected and this is why you have all those anomalies in FR in the so called “war zone.”

Not the same speaker. See my comment above.

 

[cavedriver]

Just purchased the 190’s and haven’t had a chance to listen to them yet. Will provide my subjective opinion when I get around to them

I'm not sure but I think the 190's are just as bad as the 180's. I was A/B'ing one of each side by side earlier but I just sent the 180's back and have the other 190 out of it's box to break in and set up as a stereo pair for some listening later. Perhaps the 190's are a tiny bit mellower.

 

[MacCali]

I'm not sure but I think the 190's are just as bad as the 180's. I was A/B'ing one of each side by side earlier but I just sent the 180's back and have the other 190 out of it's box to break in and set up as a stereo pair for some listening later. Perhaps the 190's are a tiny bit mellower.

I was just on vacation, so I just got back. About to get it rolling by the weekend. Any suggestions on how to properly do a in room frequency response without it being super expensive. Figure that's the only way to create a legit EQ profile unless one already exists or simply to see how the speakers act. Clearly not a klippel but eh

Honestly got no issue sending them to @amirm however both speakers in box are about 98 lbs so I am certain this is going to be a pricey ship. They shipped it to me on a pallet, delivery driver couldn't even get it into my building we had to take it off to get it to my door lol

 

[Dennis Murphy]

You will be surprised how bad dispersion will be when you have two drivers at two wavelength apart at the crossover point.

Speaker design is not this simple.

I mentioned that vertical dispersion won't be as smooth as with a 2.5, but vertical dispersion isn't nearly as important as smooth horizontal dispersion, which is excellent on both the stock and my modded version. I've been doing this professionally for over 20 years and have a pretty good handle on the complexities of crossover design. In this case, I had to go with what I was given in terms of driver layout. The object of the exercise is to provide a fairly inexpensive upgrade for the 180's should they go on sale again, not to design the best of all possible crossovers for this speaker.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

That is on just one of the woofers, the bottom one, which compensates for the baffle step. The other one is directly connected and this is why you have all those anomalies in FR in the so called “war zone.”

As others have pointed out, the listed schematic is for a different speaker--one that doesn't use a 2.5 architecture. The big inductor filters both woofers.

 

[tw 2022]

I mentioned that vertical dispersion won't be as smooth as with a 2.5, but vertical dispersion isn't nearly as important as smooth horizontal dispersion, which is excellent on both the stock and my modded version. I've been doing this professionally for over 20 years and have a pretty good handle on the complexities of crossover design. In this case, I had to go with what I was given in terms of driver layout. The object of the exercise is to provide a fairly inexpensive upgrade for the 180's should they go on sale again, not to design the best of all possible crossovers for this speaker.

That was kind of my point, the idea ( from what i know from you and others ) is about taking a decent design and making it better within budgetary constraints... I hope the poster didn't take my response personally..

 

[375HP2482]

Well, if you all keep tabs on sales on the other A series models, I am game in buying and testing the others.

Part of it may be coming from a recent quirky sale on some JBL models like these. A few AVS members purchased multiples during this feeding frenzy.

 

[Presently42]

As truly bummed as I was by the results of the A180, I'd still very much like to see measurements of the A190 (the A170 I find a bit pointless, given, that it doesn't go much lower than the excellent A130 - unless it's better in other ways!). I'm especially interested, now that it's being modded, and would love to see the results of these mods. This could still be a fantastic bargain with the mods. Exciting times!

 

[Nonick]

@amirm waiting for JBL Stage A190 measurements!

 

[sarumbear]

You do realize you are responding to one of the top crossover designers there is??Edit .. I have a pair of modded speakers he worked on.. He kinda knows what he's doing..

There is no disrespect but no human had so far managed to change the laws of physics. There is a reason why there is always a single midrange driver, hence running two drivers at 2kHz will cause issues which will be audible.