JBL A180 Tower Speaker Review

[abdo123]

Wow--that's a really low crossover point for that tweeter. They may be trading off woofer distortion for tweeter distortion.

If i remember correctly the studio series have a unique (and gigantic) waveguide.

 

[tw 2022]

If i remember correctly the studio series have a unique (and gigantic) waveguide.

Yes.. If it's the 5 series you are referring to..

 

[Beave]

Wow--that's a really low crossover point for that tweeter. They may be trading off woofer distortion for tweeter distortion.

Keep in mind that the Studio 590 uses a compression tweeter in a very large horn. It's nothing like the Stage series tweeter.

 

[tw 2022]

Keep in mind that the Studio 590 uses a compression tweeter in a very large horn. It's nothing like the Stage series tweeter.

Yes, that compression tweeter is nothing like any dome I've heard...

 

[Jag41]

@amirm Thank you for the review. Attached is the A180 file I received from Harman. Interesting similarities.

 

[amirm]

@amirm Thank you for the review. Attached is the A180 file I received from Harman. Interesting similarities.

Thanks. I saw that earlier and was nice to see similarities to me.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

Wow--that's a really low crossover point for that tweeter. They may be trading off woofer distortion for tweeter distortion.

Sorry--I read right through the "590" part and thought you were talking about the 190. I doubt that the 590 woofers have the same issue to start with. The 180 woofer distortion profile is pretty unusual.

 

[Xyrium]

In the same way that my vet can "fix" my dog or how Robocop OCP doctors can 'fix' Alex Murphy.

I think for me, this is a no brain buy at usd$200... that's not even a question.. as furniture around the house you couldnt even buy the MDF for $200, heck you couldnt even buy the cones...

Average prices are around CAN/SG/AUS $1,500!

With DSP you could smooth out all that 'war zone'?

I actually really really like the JBL "house" sound from the budget Studio/Stage series but admittely they can run ragged at the top and bottom but at this price, what did you expect.

I'm not sure if my reference came across, but I agree. The parts alone exceed the price of the sum here.

 

[hex168]

Maybe cross the woofers lower and put a Tectonic TEBM46C20N-4B in a little box on top? Or if it is not quite sensitive enough, a Faital 3FE25?

 

[beagleman]

Maybe cross the woofers lower and put a Tectonic TEBM46C20N-4B in a little box on top? Or if it is not quite sensitive enough, a Faital 3FE25?

At the price they are though....I think we are lucky they measure as good as they do.

 

[asr1837373829w936q9]

Inside JBL Stage A180 - crossover filter photos:

 

[asr1837373829w936q9]

JBL A170 crossover photos for comparison. Whatever they did in A170, they did it right. A170 sounds ways better to my ears. Could it be the crossover?

 

[cavedriver]

JBL A170 crossover photos for comparison:

Any observations on distortion and sound quality on the A170?

 

[More Dynamics Please]

Would be interesting to see what performance improvement could be achieved at minimal cost to JBL by dipping into the Stage A1XX parts bin and adding a 5.25" driver from the A130/A170 to the A180/A190 as a dedicated midrange with the bass drivers crossed lower and the dome tweeter higher than currently configured. The existing 5.25" likely only costs JBL a few dollars per unit so the main cost issue would come in upgrading from a 2.5-way to 3-way crossover. Emotiva has gotten good results with a 5.25" mid in their T1+ and T2+ towers (with crossover points of 350 and 3,200 Hz in the T2+).

 

[Nonick]

From repair (service) manual of JBL Studio 190
Low-frequency transducer: 2 x 6-1/2" (165mm) PolyPlas™ cones, shielded (16PR90BX-HW01-E) DC resistance:9.0 ohms ±10%• Mid-frequency transducer: 4" (101mm) PolyPlas cone, shielded (10PR75AX-HW01-E) DC resistance:4.6 ohms ±10%• High-frequency transducer: 1" (25mm) CMMD®Lite dome, shielded (36DT25BX-DT01-E) DC resistance:3.6 ohms ±10%• Crossover network:013-7600-05823-E

Possible to find similar schematics for JBL Stage A180/A190?

 

[sarumbear]

From repair (service) manual of JBL Studio 190
Low-frequency transducer: 2 x 6-1/2" (165mm) PolyPlas™ cones, shielded (16PR90BX-HW01-E) DC resistance:9.0 ohms ±10%• Mid-frequency transducer: 4" (101mm) PolyPlas cone, shielded (10PR75AX-HW01-E) DC resistance:4.6 ohms ±10%• High-frequency transducer: 1" (25mm) CMMD®Lite dome, shielded (36DT25BX-DT01-E) DC resistance:3.6 ohms ±10%• Crossover network:013-7600-05823-E

View attachment 212735

Possible to find similar schematics for JBL Stage A180/A190?

No filtering on the low frequency driver is pretty bad form.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

From repair (service) manual of JBL Studio 190
Low-frequency transducer: 2 x 6-1/2" (165mm) PolyPlas™ cones, shielded (16PR90BX-HW01-E) DC resistance:9.0 ohms ±10%• Mid-frequency transducer: 4" (101mm) PolyPlas cone, shielded (10PR75AX-HW01-E) DC resistance:4.6 ohms ±10%• High-frequency transducer: 1" (25mm) CMMD®Lite dome, shielded (36DT25BX-DT01-E) DC resistance:3.6 ohms ±10%• Crossover network:013-7600-05823-E

View attachment 212735

Possible to find similar schematics for JBL Sta

No filtering on the low frequency driver is pretty bad form.

It has a big-hog 3.6 mH coil on the woofs. That would be huge if the woofers are each 8 Ohms, because they're running in parallel.

 

[Dennis Murphy]

I worked up a revised crossover for the 180 last night and cobbled the board together today. I jettisoned the 2.5 architecture, which requires a lot more components that JBL could have afforded to provide in this economy-level speaker. A properly done 2.5 would have a small advantage in vertical dispersion linearity, since interference between the two drivers would be reduced due to the lower crossover point of the bottom woofer. But I don't see any other advantage, and the circuit they used produced a huge THD-inducing peak in the bottom woofer. By running both woofers up to the 2 kHz crossover point, it's possible to trap out any woofer peaks with a single lrc network. I'll probably diddle with this after I listen carefully, but the brightness is gone and so is the distortion. What used to be around 3% THD@90 dB a little above 1 kHz is now .3%. Here's the mod, followed by the stock. The tweeter was disconnected when I measured the stock because I was trying to find the source of the distortion (which was the woofer).

 

[sarumbear]

It has a big-hog 3.6 mH coil on the woofs. That would be huge if the woofers are each 8 Ohms, because they're running in parallel.

That is on just one of the woofers, the bottom one, which compensates for the baffle step. The other one is directly connected and this is why you have all those anomalies in FR in the so called “war zone.”

 

[sarumbear]

I worked up a revised crossover for the 180 last night and cobbled the board together today. I jettisoned the 2.5 architecture, which requires a lot more components that JBL could have afforded to provide in this economy-level speaker. A properly done 2.5 would have a small advantage in vertical dispersion linearity, since interference between the two drivers would be reduced due to the lower crossover point of the bottom woofer. But I don't see any other advantage, and the circuit they used produced a huge THD-inducing peak in the bottom woofer. By running both woofers up to the 2 kHz crossover point, it's possible to trap out any woofer peaks with a single lrc network. I'll probably diddle with this after I listen carefully, but the brightness is gone and so is the distortion. What used to be around 3% THD@90 dB a little above 1 kHz is now .3%. Here's the mod, followed by the stock. The tweeter was disconnected when I measured the stock because I was trying to find the source of the distortion (which was the woofer).
View attachment 212761

View attachment 212763

You will be surprised how bad dispersion will be when you have two drivers at two wavelength apart at the crossover point.

Speaker design is not this simple.