Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[amper42]

Hi,

I have the app and ran a calibration through it but I cannot find the way to set a frequency correction limit. Any pointers ?

Kind regards,

After you have run the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app a new file is created on the iPad/tablet, click it to open. Within the available menu options click MultEQ Filter Frequency Range. Next, reduce the FR range effected in Audyssey by grabbing the tab on the right side and slide it to the left until you reach the Hz value you desire. Limiting Audyssey EQ to 500Hz will help even out bass response while leaving the speakers natural high frequency response intact. Once the file is modified to fit your need save it and upload it to the Denon receiver.



Additional detailed information on the Audyssey app:

Running Audyssey Using the MultEQ Editor App

How to run Audyssey using the MultEQ Editor App.

www.digitalnoesis.org

 

[jgiannakas]

Hi,

I have the app and ran a calibration through it but I cannot find the way to set a frequency correction limit. Any pointers ?

Kind regards,

It’s under the mutieq frequency range menu.

 

[soberego]

Thank you both

 

[Deleted member 43441]

This is a review and detailed measurements of Denon AVR-X3700H 9.2 channel 8K Home Theater AV Receiver (AVR). It is kindly loaned to me by a local member and costs US $1,199.

Visually, if you have seen one AVR, you have seen the look of the AVR-X3700H:

View attachment 76014

The input selector is plastic and while rotating it feels fine, the plastic feel is a bit jarring because you expect it to be metal. AVRs though are universally used with remote controls so this is just a minor nit.

The back panel has the typical connectors including the single new "8K" capable HDMI Input:

View attachment 76015

The 3700H is lighter than its higher end siblings which I personally appreciated as I lugged it around.

In use, the unit was quite robust, never shutting down no matter how much I pushed its amplification in my standard tests. Other AVRs can be very sensitive, constantly shutting down when pushed, often requiring a power cycle. Not here.

The 3700H does run warm and I will show the thermal imaging of it later.

There is a lot of anticipation for this review as I gave its last year mode, the AVR-X3600H my best rating of any AVR tested. Alas, I reviewed that late in its design cycle so availability is very poor. Hope is that this replacement unit doesn't regress in measured performance while adding features. So let's get into that.

Note: Denon engineering was kind enough to review these measurements and confirm that they match their expectations.

AVR DAC Performance
As usual, when we have pre-amplifier output functionality on an AVR, we feed the unit digital 1 kHz perfect sine wave and see what it outputs in analog domain (amplifiers shut off):

View attachment 76021

Ah, that is a sign of relief. SINAD which is the sum of noise and distortion is in the same ballpark of AVR-X3600H:

View attachment 76020

One to two dB difference is to be expected so no cause for concern. I also tested Coax input (not shown) and it had the same performance.

My standardized tests use 2 volts output but since you can't turn off the amplifiers beyond 2 or all channels, let's see what the performance is like for other output levels before the amplifiers clip and drag down the performance of the DAC subsystem:
View attachment 76022

As you see, peak performance with the amplifiers off is around 1.1 volts with SINAD of 101 dB which is excellent for an AVR. With the amps on, you are OK up to 1.4 volt output before it nose dives. So when selecting an external amplifier for channels beyond fronts, make sure it can output its maximum power at or below 1.4 volts (usually specified as "sensitivity").

Signal to noise ratio is about the same as 3600H as well:
View attachment 76023

32-tone test signal which simulates "music" shows more intermodulation distortion than the 3600H:
View attachment 76024

Here is the 3600H for reference:

The 3700H though evens the match by producing near perfect linearity (accuracy) score:

View attachment 76025

Back to intermodulation distortion, here is how it varies with level:

View attachment 76026

Jitter performance is the same as 3600H in both good and bad ways:

View attachment 76027

Coax/Toslink inputs generate a ton of jitter and spurious sidebands (tones). Levels are very low though so more of a visual distraction than what is audible. HDMI achieves a lower noise floor which indicates the other inputs suffer from random/broadband jitter. However, the HDMI jitter profile is different (blue) showing that better care could be put in there to isolate the DAC from what is around it.

The filter performance is decent:
View attachment 76028

The attenuation here is better than what we get in the higher end AVR-X6700H which is an interesting "reversal of fortunes:" (label on graph is wrong -- should say AVR-X6700H)

Poor attenuation usually makes our broadband distortion+noise versus frequency worse. So good thing the filtering is better in 3700H:

View attachment 76029

HEOS Streaming Performance
Here is a quick test which shows streaming performance to be similar to HDMI/Coax inputs:

View attachment 76044

AVR Amplifier Measurements
I have been testing Denon AVR amplifiers using CD input which I have found to not be digitized allowing us to see the true performance the amplifier rather than any processing blocks. Question has been raised as to what happens when you turn on signal processing such as bass management. Here is the answer:

View attachment 76030

The answer is naturally, the AVR will digitize such analog signals the moment you do that. As it should. Fortunately the Pure Direct button overrides that as show in red graph. Digitization is at high sample rate of 96 kHz which is nice. Note that level changes a bit so be careful if you are doing AB tests.

For the rest of these tests I will be using CD input in pure-direct with speakers set to large.

Here is our usual dashboard with 1 kHz tone again:

View attachment 76031

Denon once again shows that its amplifiers are above average even though many channels are stuffed in a "mass market" product:

View attachment 76032

And within all AVRs tested:

View attachment 76034

I wish the dynamic range was 6 dB better to clear CD at 16 bits (which the 3600H achieved):
View attachment 76033

Crosstalk is a bit disappointing but Ok from audibility point of view:

View attachment 76035

Power output versus distortion and noise which is one of the most important metrics into 4 ohm shows respectable results:

View attachment 76036

Allowing distortion to grown to 1%, we get even more power, continuous or peak:

View attachment 76037

That's good bit of headroom which is nice to have in any amplifier since peaks in music can be momentary.

Switching to 8 ohm load we get to compare our measurements against the company's spec: (label is a typo: should say 3700H)

View attachment 76038

Testing frequency sensitivity with full power sweep we get:

View attachment 76040

This is a bit less tidy than 3600H but still far better than many other amps, specially the switching/Class D ones.

Note that as is typical, power output drops at 20 Hz (orange) which is where you need it most.

AVR Power Scaling with Channels
There is a shared power supply in all of these AVRs so as you turn on more channels, power you get from each channel drops:

View attachment 76039

AVR Heat & Thermal Analysis
Denon & Marantz AVRs tend to run warm especially if used without the ECO mode. The 3700H doesn't get as warm as its larger brothers which is good:

View attachment 76041

Can't figure out why the hot channels are in the middle even though the speaker terminals are all the way to the right. So perhaps that is how they are wired.

Conclusions
What a sigh of relief that the Denon AVR-X3700H performns on par with the later year mode, 3600H. The other "2020 year" Denon AVRs we have tested have had worse performance, leaving the 3600H as the best performing AVR until now. So buy the 3700H with peace of mind knowing that it performs quite well (for an AVR). Of course be mindful of what other features the units above it have which you may want, top of which is more power.

I am happy to add Denon AVR-X3700H to my recommended list.

-----------
As always, questions, comments, recommendations, etc. are welcome.

Get this: money is so tight that I not only have to mow my own lawn, but had to fix the darn riding mower myself!!! Sweating in hot sun, fixed the rusty connections on the solenoid to get it to start reliably. Please rescue me from this misery so I can find other people do such work by donate what you can using : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/how-to-support-audio-science-review.8150/

Thanks for you yet another good review.

My thoughts are wow this thing out performs and puts the shame many of the high dollar AVR’s on the market.

Still looking to replace my nine-year-old AVP… I think measurements will only get better, but I’m not looking to spend a fortune, under 5000 and I think better measurements are on the way. Thanks again.

 

[jefny]

Sound wise, especially after tuning with Audyssey, I am quite happy with my new x3700 (I use it as a pre-amp, using my Outlaw 770 for a 7.2 system). However, on the video end, I have ongoing problems. My 2 week old AVR is getting me frustrated with video hdmi outs to 2 monitors. I have 3 hdmi inputs (Tivo, a Roku and a bluray player) and 2 hdmi outs to monitor 1 (a plasma TV) and Monitor 2 (overhead projector). Everything works fine with the plasma but only the bluray player works with the overhead though sometimes it opens the plasma at the same time and I have to pull the hdmi plasma connection.

For the Roku and the Tivo, I get alternating blank screens and snow on monitor 2 (overhead projector). When I plug the Overhead projector cable directly into the Tivo, the image is fine. Several calls to Denon and I got suggestions such as using different hdmi inputs and make setting changes have gotten me nowhere. I should mention, that before I bought this unit (Denon direct) they assured me that there would be no problem in utilizing 2 monitors, especially if I don't use them at the same time.

If I can't resolve this issue I will have to return the Denon. Any bright ideas? Thanks in Advance.

JohnF

 

[conqueeftador]

Sound wise, especially after tuning with Audyssey, I am quite happy with my new x3700 (I use it as a pre-amp, using my Outlaw 770 for a 7.2 system). However, on the video end, I have ongoing problems. My 2 week old AVR is getting me frustrated with video hdmi outs to 2 monitors. I have 3 hdmi inputs (Tivo, a Roku and a bluray player) and 2 hdmi outs to monitor 1 (a plasma TV) and Monitor 2 (overhead projector). Everything works fine with the plasma but only the bluray player works with the overhead though sometimes it opens the plasma at the same time and I have to pull the hdmi plasma connection.

For the Roku and the Tivo, I get alternating blank screens and snow on monitor 2 (overhead projector). When I plug the Overhead projector cable directly into the Tivo, the image is fine. Several calls to Denon and I got suggestions such as using different hdmi inputs and make setting changes have gotten me nowhere. I should mention, that before I bought this unit (Denon direct) they assured me that there would be no problem in utilizing 2 monitors, especially if I don't use them at the same time.

If I can't resolve this issue I will have to return the Denon. Any bright ideas? Thanks in Advance.

JohnF

In a similar boat. I have had both working at once, but it seems dicky. What are the other options?

I did find an hdmi 2.1 splitter but i t is out of stock.

 

[jefny]

In a similar boat. I have had both working at once, but it seems dicky. What are the other options?

I did find an hdmi 2.1 splitter but i t is out of stock.

I did get a reply from Denon. They suggested 2 ideas to try. The first: Since my plasma is 720p (the lesser resolution) I should lower the output resolution of the non-working inputs to 720 (the Roku and Tivo). Two: Disable the monitor out you are not using in Video Output Setting. I will get back with my results.
JohnP

 

[saadqazi3452837]

Thank you for another positive review. Could you test the headphone out's output impedance? The value of this parameter on Denon AVRs has been debated in another thread.

 

[saadqazi3452837]

Thanks for you yet another good review.

My thoughts are wow this thing out performs and puts the shame many of the high dollar AVR’s on the market.

Still looking to replace my nine-year-old AVP… I think measurements will only get better, but I’m not looking to spend a fortune, under 5000 and I think better measurements are on the way. Thanks again.

Hello, Can I use your images for any other platform, If you will give me the permission for these images , I wane use other website

 

[jefny]

I did get a reply from Denon. They suggested 2 ideas to try. The first: Since my plasma is 720p (the lesser resolution) I should lower the output resolution of the non-working inputs to 720 (the Roku and Tivo). Two: Disable the monitor out you are not using in Video Output Setting. I will get back with my results.
JohnP

I did try Denon's suggestions and both were unsuccessful. I did share this with Denon. Their response was the 40 foot hdmi cable is this problem or something they called EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) which is not very clear to me. I am going to order a brand new 40 foot active hdmi cable and see if this works.
JohnF

 

[jefny]

I did try Denon's suggestions and both were unsuccessful. I did share this with Denon. Their response was the 40 foot hdmi cable is this problem or something they called EDID (Extended Display Identification Data) which is not very clear to me. I am going to order a brand new 40 foot active hdmi cable and see if this works.
JohnF

#12,914 · a moment ago

Thanks again. No ifference when I switch monitor 1 and monitor 2. I realized my version of an active cable (redmere) is already outdated and I ordered a new one to try. Denon got back to me and suggested the same issue of the cable. They also referred to something called EDID (extended display Identification data) which was not very clear to me.

JohnF

Success! I purchased a new 40 foot active cable which is updated (from redmere) and all my inputs (Tivo, Roku and Bluray player) appear on the overhead. I am working out some kinks involving Monitor 1 and monitor 2 as only monitor 1 seems to work with everything while there is no output from monitor 2 though dual is selected.

 

[jefny]

#12,914 · a moment ago


Success! I purchased a new 40 foot active cable which is updated (from redmere) and all my inputs (Tivo, Roku and Bluray player) appear on the overhead. I am working out some kinks involving Monitor 1 and monitor 2 as only monitor 1 seems to work with everything while there is no output from monitor 2 though dual is selected.

Problem solved concerning hdmi output issues. Ipout on my glasses and realized I mixed up Zone 2 with monitor 2. How dumb. I should add that Denon has been very responsive to my online inquiries to their website. They answer promptly via email.

jefny

 

[vengelmann]

I read through this entire thread. I have been putting off getting an AVR for about a year and a half, frustrated at their poor measurements, frustrated that I couldn't get a center channel for Dolby/DTS by just parsing some PCM/(E-)AC3 from USB or Toslink input. I've hacked on this for so many hours just to try to get equalization (convolution, PEQ, etc.) plus a good DAC and separates (e.g., separate dac, preamp, amp, streaming mechanism, such as an old laptop).

I wanted an efficient set up with separates that I could swap out and test individually. Eventually, Big Content crushed those dreams, and I got myself an X3700h.

I fought hard. I'm a software dev by profession. I persevere in the nastiest of technical swamps on a daily basis. But I gave up. Paying 15k/year for the right to own a $20 HDMI chip to do my own HDMI processing? Resorting to reverse engineering one of those chips and learning how to write the equivalent with an FPGA? Damn, I have two kids, a job, a business and a hockey addiction. I gave up and bought the X3700H.

AND IT SOUNDS AWESOME.

I never had my poorly oriented "listening spot" sound so punchy, even, and clear. Audyssey, while not "perfect", can be combined with your own customizations to achieve a quality of sound I could not achieve otherwise. And I tried like hell.

So, if you're freaking out about an AVR being noisy, well, here's my two cents. The X3700H is pretty darn good.

EDIT: Not even mentioning movies. Thank god I'm not downmixing to stereo anymore. I can actually hear dialogue without turning the system up so loud that it wakes up my kids with the next explosion.

 

[peng]

I read through this entire thread. I have been putting off getting an AVR for about a year and a half, frustrated at their poor measurements, frustrated that I couldn't get a center channel for Dolby/DTS by just parsing some PCM/(E-)AC3 from USB or Toslink input. I've hacked on this for so many hours just to try to get equalization (convolution, PEQ, etc.) plus a good DAC and separates (e.g., separate dac, preamp, amp, streaming mechanism, such as an old laptop).

I wanted an efficient set up with separates that I could swap out and test individually. Eventually, Big Content crushed those dreams, and I got myself an X3700h.

I fought hard. I'm a software dev by profession. I persevere in the nastiest of technical swamps on a daily basis. But I gave up. Paying 15k/year for the right to own a $20 HDMI chip to do my own HDMI processing? Resorting to reverse engineering one of those chips and learning how to write the equivalent with an FPGA? Damn, I have two kids, a job, a business and a hockey addiction. I gave up and bought the X3700H.

AND IT SOUNDS AWESOME.

I never had my poorly oriented "listening spot" sound so punchy, even, and clear. Audyssey, while not "perfect", can be combined with your own customizations to achieve a quality of sound I could not achieve otherwise. And I tried like hell.

So, if you're freaking out about an AVR being noisy, well, here's my two cents. The X3700H is pretty darn good.

EDIT: Not even mentioning movies. Thank god I'm not downmixing to stereo anymore. I can actually hear dialogue without turning the system up so loud that it wakes up my kids with the next explosion.

Since you are a software developer, you may find Ratbuddssey interesting and useful. I use it to edit the target curve and got excellent results.

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/announcing-ratbuddyssey-a-tool-for-tweaking-audyssey-multeq-app-files.3006886/

 

[mj30250]

I'm not well-versed in interpreting amplifier measurements, and I'm trying to make sense of these pre-amp voltage measurements given my possible use-case:

The chart shows that the "front amps" are turned off for the first measurement - does this mean that only the front L/R amps were turned "off" (in other words, what AMP ASSIGN = 11.1 would accomplish), or is this in pre-amp mode with all internal amps disconnected?

I'm asking because I am considering an X3700H for use with my Monolith 3X200 in a 5.2 setup. This means that I would be driving the LCR channels externally, but the surround speakers will be driven from the Denon's amps. Therefore, I can only disconnect the internal L/R amps.

The 3X200's sensitivity is 1.6v, so with this configuration might I run into audible clipping / distortion at loud volumes?

 

[peng]

I'm not well-versed in interpreting amplifier measurements, and I'm trying to make sense of these pre-amp voltage measurements given my possible use-case:

The chart shows that the "front amps" are turned off for the first measurement - does this mean that only the front L/R amps were turned "off" (in other words, what AMP ASSIGN = 11.1 would accomplish), or is this in pre-amp mode with all internal amps disconnected?

The front (left and right only, not center) amp channels were not literally "off", but were disconnected from the pre amp outputs. It is not the same as preamp mode in the follow ways:
1) Preamp mode would disconnect all power amp channels, not just front left and front right.
2) Preamp mode would effectively, turn on ECO (kind of behind the scene)to save energy consumption by lowering the rail voltage.

I'm asking because I am considering an X3700H for use with my Monolith 3X200 in a 5.2 setup. This means that I would be driving the LCR channels externally, but the surround speakers will be driven from the Denon's amps. Therefore, I can only disconnect the internal L/R amps.

The 3X200's sensitivity is 1.6v, so with this configuration might I run into audible clipping / distortion at loud volumes?

The answer to your question is negative. The X3700H's SINAD at 2 V is higher than 75 dB, that means THD+N was less than 0.0178% or -75 dB THD+N. That's not really clipping if you consider the fact that test sites such as Audioholics, Stereophile and others typically define clipping as the point where THD >=1%, some may more conservatively define it as 0.1% but I am not aware of anyone used lower figures for that for preamp and power amps.

As I have mentioned many times, Amir's wording seem to have led many readers to think the pre out of the Denon AVRs such as the X3700H started to clip at 1.4 V. That is not true at all. It is just that at that point the THD+N measured at the pre out would increase quickly, but not too quickly as the graph showed at 2 V, THD+N was still less than 0.0178%.

I really hope Amir himself would clarify this very point eventually, at least use clearer wording in his future reviews that include that particular graph.

 

[mj30250]

That clears it up, thank you!

 

[SlowCar]

Setting up the Denon 3700 in full pre-out mode is pretty easy. Go to Speakers: Amp Assign and select Assign Mode. Next, push the selector button so Assign Mode is highlighted, scroll to Pre-out mode and select it. In this mode, none of the external speaker terminals will work. The signal travels from the Pre-outs to external amps. In full Pre-out mode the power rails are disconnected. The unit will still get warm but not near as much as when using the internal amps. Energy usage of the Denon 3700 will drop by almost 100W in full pre-out mode.

You will want to continue with Audyssey setup after setting the amp assign function. It will check for phase, distance, levels and EQ. Audyssey will do this better than you could ever do manually. I would not skip this step. Get the $20 Audyssey app for phone or tablet. It provides many functions not available on the receiver like midrange correction, the ability to establish custom curves, select different roll-off settings plus the ability to save Audyssey settings for different configurations. The app makes Audyssey significantly more functional. It's an absolute must have if you're a Denon 3700 owner.

One thing to remember, in full pre-out mode only the function marked on the pre-out connector will work. Zone functions will not as well as A-B Fronts or any other amp assign features that do not align strictly with the printed function of each pre-out connector.

I would setup with a single monitor using the HDMI eArc port. After that is completed and you are happy with the sound you could play with adding a second monitor. That would be a totally separate issue from the initial setup of Audyssey. Normally, there is only one monitor in a setup. If you want to simplify your life stick with that. If not, you may have to dive into the input sections of the Denon 3700 manual. If both the HDMI MONITOR 1 and HDMI MONITOR 2 connectors are connected and “Resolution” is set to “Auto”, the signals are output with a resolution that is compatible with both TVs. As you can see this could degrade the resolution if both monitors are not identical. Have fun!


View attachment 183692

So you are saying that i can have 2 pairs of front speakers connected to denon?
One setup connected to amplified outputs and the second connected to external amplifier which will be connected to rca outputs on denon?
And i can have diferrent settings for both amp wwitch between them in convinient way?

 

[anphex]

So you are saying that i can have 2 pairs of front speakers connected to denon?
One setup connected to amplified outputs and the second connected to external amplifier which will be connected to rca outputs on denon?
And i can have diferrent settings for both amp wwitch between them in convinient way?

With Zones and the two Configurations save slots and/or quick settings your should easily be able to do that.

 

[amper42]

So you are saying that i can have 2 pairs of front speakers connected to denon?
One setup connected to amplified outputs and the second connected to external amplifier which will be connected to rca outputs on denon?
And i can have diferrent settings for both amp wwitch between them in convinient way?

Yes, the Denon 3700 dual Preset configuration option allows you to easily switch between two different setups. Many users find this helpful for setting up a stereo configuration that is different than a 7.2.4 movie configuration. Simply switching between the two presets lets you access the one you want. And if you use the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app on the App Store it can save an unlimited amount of additional Audyssey config files that you can load into Preset 1 or 2 on the Denon 3700. Once you start using these options you start to build different Audyssey configurations for different uses and save them on your iPad for easy access. Loading them on the receiver is super easy.