Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 Review (DAC)

[Rottmannash]

Such a shame ... they have invested a lot into components without measurable success.
Maybe they need some AP unit or at least decent soundcard?
View attachment 207326

It is pretty tho!

 

[PeteL]

I think if this DAC performed, there would be a market for large form factor/fancier looking units. I am still sad that I replaced my Mark Levinson DAC with topping in that regard.

Does your Topping DAC sounds significantly better than your Mark Levinson DAC?

 

[srkbear]

I have had the following DACs in the last 2 years.

- Benchmark DAC3B (in an all-BM stack)
- Topping D90SE
- Matrix Audio I 3 Pro
- Audio Mirror Tubador SE III
- Musetec 005
- Internal DAC in a KRELL K-300i integrated amp
- Gustard X28 Pro

The only DACs I have left are the Benchmark DAC3B and the Musetec 005 (I considered these 2 the best). I need another DAC of my Livingroom system because my DAC3B will move to a new headphone system with the RAAL VM-1a headphone amp. The new DAC that will replace the DAC3B with will be a 2nd Musetec 005.

Threads like this one may make it easier to find a used 005.

Mazeltov! They’re going for $3,299 on eBay and Reverb, almost four times the list price for a brand new Topping d90se, the best-performing DAC we’ve seen documented to date (and not just on here).

I can’t imagine what criteria you prioritize when selecting your “best” DACs, but you must have a thing for distortion and noise—and boy is it breathtakingly cringeworthy to hear you boast about your choices with such a triumphant, patronizing tone, given your lack of insight or judgment about how a good DAC is defined. Your problem is not one of hearing; it’s one of listening—you’re not paying attention to your audience on here. And after this post of yours, I’m afraid the only sound you’re going to hear in response to your gloat is one hand clapping. Slowly.

PS: There’s no such thing as a Gustard x28 pro, at least not yet…

 

[Rottmannash]

Again, tail wagging the dog. Cart before the horse, if you prefer. Do you send your measurement equipment to a concert?

Most of the live sound at the many concerts I've attended was far inferior to the sound I enjoy in my home. Not sure why one would consider live amplified sound at a concert as an ideal.

 

[JSmith]

how does it sound?

I'm surprised it took 5 pages this time...

Have you explored that?

No one ever has... you're the very first person in the history of the world to come up with this idea, amazing.


JSmith

 

[Garrincha]

Mazeltov! They’re going for $3,299 on eBay and Reverb, almost four times the list price for a brand new Topping d90se, the best-performing DAC we’ve seen documented to date (and not just on here).

I can’t imagine what criteria you prioritize when selecting your “best” DACs, but you must have a thing for distortion and noise—and boy is it breathtakingly cringeworthy to hear you boast about your choices with such a triumphant, patronizing tone, given your lack of insight or judgment about how a good DAC is defined. Your problem is not one of hearing; it’s one of listening—you’re not paying attention to your audience on here. And after this post of yours, I’m afraid the only sound you’re going to hear in response is one hand clapping. Slowly.

What a shame, you were faster. This guy has no general guideline whatsoever, mixing state of the art devices from Benchmark with tube Dacs and expensively ones measuring poorly. I guess high price seems to be the only criterion.

 

[srkbear]

What a shame, you were faster. This guy has no general guideline whatsoever, mixing state of the art devices from Benchmark with tube Dacs and expensivly ones measuring poorly. I guess high price seems to be the only criterion.

Apparently, especially since he’s excited to get a great high priced deal on a used poorly-measuring DAC!

 

[Billy Budapest]

Do you have any links about this? I'd like to read more.

Just Google “Lexicon Oppo.” Here’s a taste:

Lexicon sells $500 Oppo Blu-ray player for $3,500

www.soundandvision.com

Lexicon BD-30 Blu-ray Player (Oppo BDP-83 Clone) Review

We discovered the Lexicon BD-30 is an Oppo BDP-83 Blu-ray Player with a $3k premium. We prove this with pictures, measurements and an official response from THX. Lexicon no longer sells this product.

www.audioholics.com

 

[srkbear]

I have only occasionally read this forum, but the impression I’ve gotten on this Musetec “review” is that not one comment was from anyone who has listened to it. How much time did Amir spend listening to it?

What’s going on here appears to be neither science nor a review, but a measurement report. My conclusion is that this forum might best be called not Audio Science Review Forum, but Audio Equipment Measurement Report. The data measured is of interest but ultimately only a footnote since the most significant question is: how does it sound?

I edited your hilarious post for just the humdingers—although it was hard to remove a single word, because the entire piece was so perfect in its unabridged form. I think it’s just hysterical that you actually question whether those of us on this forum actually listen to or appreciate music!

To answer your final question (which I suspect was meant to be rhetorical), this DAC sounds like crap, especially for its price. We know that as surely as we can tell from an EKG if someone has an irregular heart rhythm without using a stethoscope to hear it with our own ears. The measurements confirm that there are noise and distortion present, and no one with an ounce of common sense would bother going through the trouble and expense to listen to these defects to confirm.

You apparently made your choice before this data was available, and no one would judge you for that—not even if you loved the sound. But everyone on here knows you’re getting so bent out of shape only because your denial is so impenetrable that you can’t accept the truth. Where you warrant judgment is in your efforts to demean those of us on this forum who value science and data informing our purchase decisions, implying that we’re a bunch of unenlightened, cerebral rubes who have no appreciation for music.

I can think of nothing more irresponsible in this hobby than trying to gaslight others into making your own extremely costly mistake, just so you’ll feel better about it. There’s been a lot of it on this forum today, and it’s such a killjoy for those of us who are here to learn and share good information with other like-minded hobbyists.

 

[JSmith]

Ok guys I mite have taken one for the team.

I'd be happy to chip in for your loss if you setup a gofundme page and I would imagine many other members will too... considering the distributor won't accept a return (poor form there). It's appreciated that you took the risk on this device and sent it to Amir for testing, cheers.

“Lexicon Oppo.”

Oh man, that was such a dodgy event... literally a BDP-83 in a different case that cost 5 times the price. I'm honestly surprised Lexicon still exists.


JSmith

 

[Garrincha]

I'd be happy to chip in for your loss if you setup a gofundme page and I would imagine many other members will too... considering the distributor won't accept a return (poor form there). It's appreciated that you took the risk on this device and sent it to Amir for testing, cheers.

Well, it really was insightful to see these shocking test. While I never considered to pay $3.400 for a Dac, when there are provable transparent options for just a few hundred dollars or for example the beautiful Okto Dac for slightly more than $1.000 (if available), I was wondering before what this device would measure like. Now I know and it is amazing.

But If the owner will not get a refund, hasn't user @yyzsb already signaled that he is interested in one more? Sounds like a win-win to me.

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

We (I work at a semiconductor manufacturer) test burn-in on our products on a very regular basis. It's to see if they degrade over time and if so, when and by how much some parameters become out of spec. (we put them in an oven to simulate 10 a year lifespan in normal operating conditions).
I do not know of any device getting actually better over time.
So I would say it has been tested quite rigorously.
Burn-in in the conditions audiophiles use it has no positive effect on the performance of (semiconductors inside) a device if it has any effect at all.

edit: typo

Exactly. I've worked in all sorts of electronics where we had to "burn-in" the components to stabilise their performance. This was generally due to stabilising surface or interface layers. It's a massive PITA as it takes a lot of time, space and equipment. All this is handled at the component level - if it makes it into the product something has gone seriously wrong. Audio products tend to assemble standard components rather than manufacture them. Burn in will not be an issue.

 

[DanielT]

What two steps? Documentation clearly shows 6 steps. This is the start of it:

----

MH-DA005 USB firmware update notes​

This is the note about internal USB firmware update.

We need a computer run Windows system. Win7 or Win10 32/64bits.

Step 1.

Unzip the file “oemtool117.zip”

Run the “ConfigTool.exe”

The OEMID should be “nativedsd”, Click “OK”.

-----

OEMID is "nativedsd?" Really? Who is nativedsd?

Here is the next step:
---
Please connect DA005 to your PC via an USB cable. Also please connect the AC power cable to the DAC.

Switch on the power. Wait 5~10 seconds. (You don't have to wait until the DAC displayer is fully powered on. )

Push the key in the red circle for 2 seconds. Then release the key.

-----

I don't know what red circle they are talking about.

Next step is this:
----
Step 3.

Select correct firmware version as below.
View attachment 207418

----

No... I am not doing all this for no reason. A firmware update should be a simple .exe you run and it does everything for you and should be it. I am not going through all these steps.

And again, why should a brand new unit at such high cost ship with anything other than the latest firmware?

So not only is it damn expensive, now you have to act as a computer technician as well. Congratulations.

Page up and page down in this thread about the need for blindtests (which of course is needed if one, with the ears, were to compare different DACs). What has it resulted in? ...
You can lead a horse to water but .....

Edit:
Plus another thing about blindtests of DACs. Attached thread tests of various Topping DACs, blindtest, but they have apparently not been calibrated properly which renders in the following comment:

"I do not want to sound boring, but to compare devices with low THD and small other deviations without level calibration is more or less meaningless - diplomatically put."

"THE COMPETITION (all Topping, incl. Equipment)
D10 (ES9038Q2M, LME49720, no S / PDIF recv but coax and opt out (CS8406?))
E30 (AK4493, OPA1612, CS8416 S / PDIF recv)
Dx3Pro + (ES9038Q2M, 4x LM4562, unknown S / PDIF recv)
D50s (Radelius mod) (2 x ES9038Q2M, 2x OPA1612 + LME49720 switched to OPA1642, unknown S / PDIF recv)
D30Pro (4 x CS43198, OPA1612, CS8416 S / PDIF recv)
D90 (AK4499, 4x OPA1612 + LME49720, AK4118 S / PDIF recv) (NOTE not D90SE. D90 lacks MQA and is no longer sold)

faktiskt.io • Visa tråd - Är Topping D50S fortfarande favoriten bland "budget-DACar"?

 

[restorer-john]

I forgot to mention that I did no see any regulatory/safety certification on the box.

I'm not surprised. Look at the mains inputs to the power supply PCB and where they run. Right down the left hand side to the voltage switch and primaries of the two txformers. That's a regulated +/- supply on the same PCB with only mm between mains and regulated low voltage. I don't like that.

 

[RHO]

Exactly. I've worked in all sorts of electronics where we had to "burn-in" the components to stabilise their performance. This was generally due to stabilising surface or interface layers. It's a massive PITA as it takes a lot of time, space and equipment. All this is handled at the component level - if it makes it into the product something has gone seriously wrong. Audio products tend to assemble standard components rather than manufacture them. Burn in will not be an issue.

This is not the burn-in process I was talking about.
The burn-in tests on semiconductors are done on qualification devices. Those are devices that are taken from lots before the device goes in production. These devices will never be sold to customers.
The burn-in tests are done to simulate a lifespan of 10 years (today even longer lifespans are simulated this way) and to see the behavior of the device when it ages. (to detect issues if there are any and fix them before production starts)
Putting a semiconductor under power in an oven creates the same effects as speeding up time.
So, if we see that devices can stay in spec under these conditions (a simulated 10 year lifespan), why would a device under normal conditions change behavior in such dramatic way, in a short time, that is would be audible. Even more flabbergasting... to those subjectivists it always makes it perform better, while any result I know of is that time only makes these devices perform worse.

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

This is not the burn-in process I was talking about.
The burn-in tests on semiconductors are done on qualification devices. Those are devices that are taken from lots before the device goes in production. These devices will never be sold to customers.
The burn-in tests are done to simulate a lifespan of 10 years (today even longer lifespans are simulated this way) and to see the behavior of the device when it ages. (to detect issues if there are any and fix them before production starts)
Putting a semiconductor under power in an oven creates the same effects as speeding up time.
So, if we see that devices can stay in spec under these conditions (a simulated 10 year lifespan), why would a device under normal conditions change behavior in such dramatic way, in a short time, that is would be audible. Even more flabbergasting... to those subjectivists it always makes it perform better, while any result I know of is that time only makes these devices perform worse.

In my day that was accelerated lifetime testing. Burn in was a process step to achieve a stable result. Totally agree burn in for audio equipment doesn't happen.

 

[DanielT]

Burn in..... or cool down?

Better Tone Through Cryogenics”, eh? Has anyone put that to the test?

Vital statistics for six JJ ECC83 tubes. One of these tubes has been cryo-treated — can you guess which one?

Cryogenic Treatment of Tubes: An Engineer’s Perspective - Effectrode

www.effectrode.com

 

[DudleyDuoflush]

Burn in..... or cool down?

View attachment 207517
Vital statistics for six JJ ECC83 tubes. One of these tubes has been cryo-treated — can you guess which one?

Cryogenic Treatment of Tubes: An Engineer’s Perspective - Effectrode

www.effectrode.com

I wouldn't recommend dunking your DAC in a bucket of liquid nitrogen. As an aside, from direct personal experience, never dunk a banana in liquid nitrogen then shatter it for fun. 60 secs pleasure is followed by a lifetime of rotting banana smell.

 

[Shorty]

Just Google “Lexicon Oppo.”

…or ‘Goldmund Eidos Pioneer’. The Goldmund was a $16.900 universal player with the electronics of a $2000 Pioneer BDP-LX91….. (around 2008). ‍

 

[DanielT]

I wouldn't recommend dunking your DAC in a bucket of liquid nitrogen. As an aside, from direct personal experience, never dunk a banana in liquid nitrogen then shatter it for fun. 60 secs pleasure is followed by a lifetime of rotting banana smell.

There is so much stupid hocus pocus in HiFi. Luckily, ASR exists to show the stupidity.