Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 Review (DAC)

[asov87]

Even if it did raised to the measurements published, one must wonder: do I keep the 300£ or 2000£ device if I can't hear a difference ? In this situation the choice is clearly personal/subjective/preferential.

For some value is more pragmatic, simply put the sound it produces at the end of the day. However for others it may add value the fact it has "hand picked" capacitors and silver plated wires/transformer....fine then, whatever floats your boat. Why jump at each other's throats ?!

Can't we simplify life a bit? If you have the device, then enjoy your music, if you want to buy it then these are the measurements (make your own mind on your own budget knowing the facts). Case closed (I'm off for the night )

 

[AudioSceptic]

If he designed the unit "by ear" then why publish specs that cannot be verified?

And why care about the measurement at all?

 

[Billy Budapest]

Galen Gareis must have called in the troops over on the PS Audio forum. I heard he’s been trolling Amir over there after his review of the Iconoclast cable…

Nah. I read the Iconoclast thread postings since last Thursday and Gareis has shown nothing but respect for Amir’s testing and has not said anything negative about Amir personally. He concedes that Amir’s testing is correct and states that he has done the same measurements and arrived at the same results. His hypothesis is that the audio tests we have at our disposal today are not of high enough resolution to show the differences between Iconoclast and other cables that he *knows is there* because the electrical tests of the cable show differences. He states the problem isn’t with what Amir is measuring, but what he cannot measure, and that Gareis himself cannot measure.

I am pretty shocked that a scientist would make this argument, but he’s gotta sell his cable too.

 

[AdamG]

Bulletproof defense “it can’t be measured”. Next question, how do you know it’s present in your design then? Circular argument begins.

 

[srkbear]

Nah. I read the Iconoclast thread postings since last Thursday and Gareis has shown nothing but respect for Amir’s testing and has not said anything negative about Amir personally. He concedes that Amir’s testing is correct and states that he has done the same measurements and arrived at the same results. His hypothesis is that the resolution of the audio tests we have at our disposal today is not of high enough resolution to show the differences between Iconoclast and other cables that he *knows is there* because the electrical tests of the cable show differences. He states the problem isn’t with what Amir is measuring, but what he cannot measure, and that Gareis himself cannot measure.

I am pretty shocked that a scientist would make this argument, but he’s gotta sell his cable too.

So he’s posturing graciousness as he invokes Russell’s Teapot—easy enough to do when your products are lining your pockets despite negative criticism, and when you know you can rest easy because your captive consumer base is immune to reason.

Clearly it’s not Amir’s job to prove the existence of these scientifically-improbable and unmeasurable factors he claims make his patch cable “better” than others—it’s his. And because he has no incentive to bother, I wish there were some way to force manufacturers to prove their fantastical claims before they can levy a 1,000% markup on their material costs.

 

[AudioSceptic]

As a side note, I personally assumed that this is an intended "sound", through the choice of parts selected. My personal ABX test, and a few friends that participated, resulted in us all failing to identify this DAC compared to a SOTA. I don't want to say is bad since I can't identify it from a SOTA, but in my (personal) opinion it doesn't justify the price (and I believe this is what most of the forum users are trying to point out). For those that do look out for those specific parts and can live with a decent SINAD, then it might be a good choice. The measurements however do not lie, it is what it is.

Thanks,
Adrian

So, what led you to buy this? I'm curious about the process as $3k is not trivial. What was the SOTA in the comparison?

 

[asov87]

So, what led you to buy this? I'm curious about the process as $3k is not trivial. What was the SOTA in the comparison?

I posted in #141 initially, the smsl su-9n

 

[srkbear]

I'm not sure; that's why I ask. IOW, though this DAC is poor value, is it "good enough" subjectively?

I can’t imagine how that could be the case—that would essentially render all efforts to achieve digital resolutions above 44.1/16 pointless. I recognize that there are some extremists who make such claims, just as there are vinyl extremists on some other side of the spectrum who claim that a phono cartridge can provide more “detail” than a DAC.

And although I do believe that there is a threshold of resolution beyond which the human ear can discern (especially the ones beyond the fifth decade), I believe that there are plenty of folks who can hear the difference between a standard CD and a 96khz/24 bit file, if anything based on dynamic range alone. I can’t claim that I can personally without risking the hypocrisy of the anecdote, but I’m fairly sure there is some robust data supporting this—and now you made me go seek it out!

 

[AudioSceptic]

I posted in #141 initially, the smsl su-9n

Thanks. I'm struggling to keep up with this thread!

 

[MacCali]

This is the exact reason why manufacturer measurements/specs scare me.

 

[Lotus78]

Ye gods, so far 12 pages of arguments about a device that elsewhere for $150 will give you a mostly solved problem and for $300 will give you a complete solved problem with no need of “burn-in”.

Thanks for the review amirm. But as a glass half full take. This unit did out perform the PS Audio Stellar DAC which probably puts this unit at the top of the list of the over $3k DAC class.

 

[srkbear]

Ye gods, so far 12 pages of arguments about a device that elsewhere for $150 will give you a mostly solved problem and for $300 will give you a complete solved problem with no need of “burn-in”.

Thanks for the review amirm. But as a glass half full take. This unit did out perform the PS Audio Stellar DAC which probably puts this unit at the top of the list of the over $3k DAC class.

Something tells me you’re pulling our leg, because there are at least a couple of dozen DACs in the >3K price range on Amir’s running tally of DACs that handily outperform this POS. There are cheap CD players that might outperform this abominable misuse of that poor ES9038 chip.

But one thing’s for SURE—a couple of Iconoclast XLR cables would rocket its SINAD up to the rafters…

 

[amirm]

I think if this DAC performed, there would be a market for large form factor/fancier looking units. I am still sad that I replaced my Mark Levinson DAC with topping in that regard.

 

[Lotus78]

Something tells me you’re pulling our leg, because there are at least a couple of dozen DACs in the >3K price range on Amir’s running tally of DACs that handily outperform this POS. There are cheap CD players that might outperform this abominable misuse of that poor ES9038 chip.

But one thing’s for SURE—a couple of Iconoclast XLR cables would rocket its SINAD up to the rafters…

Sorry did not realize there were other 3k DAC tested my bad. Mabey we could put it as #1 in the over 25lb DAC class?

 

[Labjr]

Manufacturer loses all credibility for lying about the specs. Maybe copied them from a data sheet. Enclosure doesn't seem that great to me. Looks pretty generic. Should be better than that for the money.

 

[srkbear]

Sorry did not realize there were other 3k DAC tested my bad. Mabey we could put it as #1 in the over 25lb DAC class?

That one might be closer!

 

[Billy Budapest]

I think if this DAC performed, there would be a market for large form factor/fancier looking units. I am still sad that I replaced my Mark Levinson DAC with topping in that regard.

Maybe someone will pull a LexiCON and plop a Topping into a larger frame with a thick machined faceplate.

Not one of Harman’s finest moments, but has provided plenty of joke fodder over the years.

 

[SubsonicLurker]

Maybe someone will pull a LexiCON and plop a Topping into a larger frame with a thick machined faceplate.

Not one of Harman’s finest moments, but has provided plenty of joke fodder over the years.

Do you have any links about this? I'd like to read more.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

$3k dac is relatively cheap in my book, so as far as confirmation bias, I was expecting much lower performance. The Okto exact opposite, far exceeded my cost/value biases. I can be biased in many different directions depending on mood, I could want/need a relatively lower priced component to out perform more expensive component, or I could want/need a more expensive component to out perform the lower priced component to justify my purchase. Remaining mindful of these biases is critical in eliminating them as biases.

Now, arguing the superiority of individual sensory perception and/or our inherent human sense limitations vs. a set of objective measurements may be valid. That battle won't be settled in this thread, go over to audiogon forums for that futile battle.

Wowwww

 

[yyzsb]

I have had the following DACs in the last 2 years.

- Benchmark DAC3B (in an all-BM stack)
- Topping D90SE
- Matrix Audio I 3 Pro
- Audio Mirror Tubador SE III
- Musetec 005
- Internal DAC in a KRELL K-300i integrated amp
- Gustard X28 Pro

The only DACs I have left are the Benchmark DAC3B and the Musetec 005 (I considered these 2 the best). I need another DAC of my Livingroom system because my DAC3B will move to a new headphone system with the RAAL VM-1a headphone amp. The new DAC that will replace the DAC3B with will be a 2nd Musetec 005.

Threads like this one may make it easier to find a used 005.