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Topping LA90 Review (Integrated Amplifier)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 35 4.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 50 6.2%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 193 24.1%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 524 65.3%

  • Total voters
    802

Sokel

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I just did a sloppy test just for fun.The measurements are taken in the listening position 2.8 meters far all other things been equal,the only thing I switched was the amps.Have a look at the distortion (all the chain plus room,thats why I said sloppy).I think power has a lot to do with the lows.
Do not consider it as something serious of course,nothing clinical about it,I already said just for fun.
 

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antcollinet

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The first thing I did when I tested my amps on my active set-up was switch them over.
Yes,the 300a2 looks much better on paper in terms of SINAD,etc but any difference between this and to 1200as2 occurred only when I cranked up the volume to the point no sane person would do.
If two amps that on paper seem transparent sound different I would search for the defective unit or the defective condition.
Or repeat the tests controlled and blind.
 

antcollinet

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Basically I agree, but how do you define and evaluate the "two transparent devices"? I hope not based on 5W/1kHz/4ohm SINAD number.
Come on - you can do better. You know that is just one of the suite of tests carried out. Continue to strawman on that basis and I'll continue to discount your opinion (yes, I know : you don't care) - despite knowing you have a lot of knowledge in the area.
 

raest

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This is a Cartesian and almost peremptory answer in the sense that if we rely on ASR measurements, there would be almost no point in buying the LA90 and even less an AHB2.... If measurements take precedence over emotions, you might as well buy a PA5 without asking questions....

I realize that many people who have never owned the PA5, or even the LA90 or the Purifi manage to give an objective opinion by taking into account a measurement test as an absolute basis for reasoning...

I could be wrong but that's my way of looking at things )
1. wth is a "Cartesian answer"?

2. this is ASR. "emotions" == "BS i tell myself to validate my money spending"

3. yes, measurements take precedence over BS when it comes to electronics. might as well spend that money on cables, according to the Kult of Audiophilia, your emotions will be equally excited and you'll hear plenty of tumescent mids and fluorescent highs

4. funny how you mention objective opinions right after talking about emotions taking precedence over measurements. are you sure you understand the website you're on, and what all these words mean?

5. and yes, the superiority of the PA5 as a product (horrible QC not withstanding), among many others, is what I and many others have been saying for a long time, and why I (and some others) consider it a bad product: the advantages it provides are inaudible, while costing well over twice as much money (not to mention the cost difference will increase significantly over the years due to increased consumption of electricity), and providing less power (unless you buy two and use bridged, but then the cost difference becomes enormous..).

and the AHB2, compared to the LA90 is not entirely pointless, as it has a clear audible advantage: power (whether you need that power is another question entirely and dependent on many factors). but yes, it is in a way pointless as many Purifi amps are equally audibly transparent at half the price while providing more power, but far less pointless than the LA90, as at least there's the factor of build quality, brand, customer service, warranty etc to consider, which may play a role in purchasing decisions
 

JSmith

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I could be wrong but that's my way of looking at things )
Sure, but I'm not saying you are "wrong"... however you are in a unique position (as you own the PA5 and LA90) to actually try and find something definitive to share with the membership. So I hope you don't think I was having a go at you... moreso encouraging proper, blind, comparisons to be able to share the data with ASR. I note as well (unsure if that was your post) that differences were noted at very high volume levels... which could indicate rising distortion prior to clipping.

@pma I refer to the whole suite of measurements performed here and the slightly broader tests performed by L7Audiolab.


JSmith
 

Sokel

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I note as well (unsure if that was your post) that differences were noted at very high volume levels... which could indicate rising distortion prior to clipping.



JSmith
That was in my post and of course you're right about it.
 

antcollinet

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I think that we don't know/do all measurements that are needed to explain everything that we hear.
Perhaps not - but we can do all the measurements that explain the soundwaves arriving at your ear. What happens after that in your brain has nothing to do with the gear.
 

Rottmannash

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Amir doesn't own F226BE, or I missed something.;)

I do not. None are powerful enough to be anywhere on my radar to be honest...;) But I tested, like you did, many, many, class-leading D amps and found no audible difference, apart from their abilities to drive difficult speakers depending on SPL required.
If he hasn't sold it he bought one to review last year.
 

peng

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Perhaps not - but we can do all the measurements that explain the soundwaves arriving at your ear. What happens after that in your brain has nothing to do with the gear.

The funny thing is, some manufacturers might have tried to use the ".. we don't know/do all measurements that are needed to explain everything that we hear.." kind of saying to support their claims of "the better sound" they described their products could do "better", yet they wouldn't identify such important metrics (if they did know what they are) that are not measurable, or can't be measured.

Some are seemingly more honest, such as D+M who claimed to have their so called "sound master tuning" approach, implying they use subjective measurements to help tune the sound", though to me, if I were to go by ears I wouldn't want it to be done by the one person or even a small team they picked.:D

To be fair, I really don't understand how their sound master "tuning'" work so I might have interpreted their claims wrong.

 

daniboun

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If he hasn't sold it he bought one to review last year.

I might be wrong... but I know he owns the Revel Salon 2 )
My BAD : F228BE =)


 

peng

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I might be wrong... but I know he owns the Revel Salon 2 )
My BAD : F228BE =)



He did listen to his Ravel Salon2 with the LA90:

The F228Be may have a little worse impedance dip/phase angle combination (if you pick the worse point). I could be wrong, but I would think the Salon2 is a little more difficult overall because of its 2 to 3 dB lower sensitivity.

Obviously if the LA90 is going to used with such speakers, one need to sit much closer and don't expect spl anywhere near reference level (example: 10 dB or more below?).

119Revelfig1.jpg



708Revfig01.jpg
 
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daniboun

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He did listen to his Ravel Salon2 with the LA90:

The F228Be may have a little worse impedance dip/phase angle combination (if you pick the worse point). I could be wrong, but I would think the Salon2 is a little more difficult overall because of its 2 to 3 dB lower sensitivity.

119Revelfig1.jpg



708Revfig01.jpg


Amir said : "Impedance dips low and with some phase angle so you better have a stout amplifier to drive the F228be:"
On the other hand, its overall performance is good.

In the end what I wanted to say: I hope that Amir can give us his assessments with a real LA90 / D90SE / listening live test and some speakers that hold up)
 

VintageFlanker

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Some are seemingly more honest, such as D+M who claimed to have their so called "sound master tuning" approach, implying they use subjective measurements to help tune the sound", though to me, if I were to go by ears I wouldn't want it to be done by the one person or even a small team they picked.:D
You got the results of Sound Master Tuning here (Filter 1, that has been effectively "tuned by ear", according to what the manufacturer told me):
fr.png
 
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peng

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Amir said : "Impedance dips low and with some phase angle so you better have a stout amplifier to drive the F228be:"
On the other hand, its overall performance is good.

In the end what I wanted to say: I hope that Amir can give us his assessments with a real LA90 / D90SE / listening live test and some speakers that hold up)

I wouldn't use such a lower power amp myself regardless, just edited my post accordingly.:)
 

peng

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You got the results of Sound Master Tuning here (Filter 1, that has been effectively "tuned by ear", according to what the manufacturer told me): View attachment 206985

Thank you very much, I read that review before but just read it again. So if what they refer to as "sound mater tuning..", is all about the filter choice, they (customer support) told me the same about their AVRs/AVPs, that they selected the slower roll off (your filter 1) filter for the Marantz. I thought they would actually listen, and then give their feedback to guide the design team to tweak something, back and forth, until the master is happy lol..
 

DualTriode

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Perhaps not - but we can do all the measurements that explain the soundwaves arriving at your ear. What happens after that in your brain has nothing to do with the gear.

That is absolutely wrong.

As the sound is reproduced by the speakers and interacts with the listening space has everything to do with the perception of the sound.

The ear brain has been designed by generations of evolution and is very measurable and predictable.
 

antcollinet

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That is absolutely wrong.

As the sound is reproduced by the speakers and interacts with the listening space has everything to do with the perception of the sound.

The ear brain has been designed by generations of evolution and is very measurable and predictable.
Sure - but we can measure the characteristics of the kit (especially electronics) that can influence how the speakers are driven. If two amps deliver audibly identical signals to the speaker, then the speaker will deliver identical signals to the ear.

But we also know that the brain influences our perception of those signals even when the signals themselves don't change. That influence that occurs purely in the brains interpretation of the signals from the ear has nothing to do with the performance of the amplifier/Dac or whatever other kit is being measured.
 

milezone

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I received one of these today and am very please. I've been comparing various drivers over the past couple months for a two or three way pair of speakers that I'm building. The most notable of these drivers have been the Beyma CP755ND, GPA 288, and Celestion Axi2050. Prior to today I was using a 20watt Class A tube amp for most of my listening. I am very happy to have the LA90 now. It sounds outstanding with my high efficiency set up in the high gain mode. Looking forward to eventually experimenting with multiple of these in conjunction with active crossovers.

IMG_1739.jpg
 
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