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KEF LS60 Wireless Just Announced

bo_knows

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General question regarding Kef wireless.

The speakers have spdif and line in. If in the future kef stops supporting the app, can't one just plug a spdif source and play from there? Would you still need a working app? Don't they come with a remote control for at least volume and source switching? Or without an app and wifi they become a brick?
Would you still need a working app? No
Don't they come with remote control for at least volume and source switching? Yes, they do.
It's just an active speaker with the remote control and phone app. What source will you use, it's up to you.
I have the original LS50W and I don't have any issues sending the digital signal from TV via Toslink to the speakers (this is their primary function).
As long as they function as designed, I don't foresee any issues with using them without the app.
I could care less if KEF stops support of the app right now...
 
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Pearljam5000

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I still don't understand who's the potential buyer.
"Hardcore" audiophiles would prefer active studio monitors
"Mainstream" audiophiles don't even want to touch actives and want to play with different amps and DACs.
Who's left?
 

voodooless

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I still don't understand who's the potential buyer.
"Hardcore" audiophiles would prefer active studio monitors
"Mainstream" audiophiles don't even want to touch actives and want to play with different amps and DACs.
Who's left?
People with a bit of cash to spare and enough interest in audio to spend some on it. Having a partner that doesn’t want massive speakers in the living room helps.
 

bo_knows

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I still don't understand who's the potential buyer.
"Hardcore" audiophiles would prefer active studio monitors
"Mainstream" audiophiles don't even want to touch actives and want to play with different amps and DACs.
Who's left?
Who were the potential customers for the original LS50 and LS50W/LS50WII?
Those are all potential customers who want to extend the bass for music sessions without using the subwoofer(s). To find out how better the LS series could sound with the new model (audiophile never stopping curiosity).
KEF marketing will work on them just like it's for the Q/R customers stepping up to Reference or Blade.
They will be buying the Blade technology for the fraction of the price with the option to place the speakers closer to the front wall.
 
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bo_knows

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I still don't understand who's the potential buyer.
"Hardcore" audiophiles would prefer active studio monitors
"Mainstream" audiophiles don't even want to touch actives and want to play with different amps and DACs.
Who's left?
You could create a new thread with the poll (survey) asking the original LS50 owners would they upgrade to LS60 if money was not an issue. ;)
 

Zvu

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... they should be confronted with the r11

R7/Reference 3 Meta would be the one to compare it with.
Four 5" woofers have aproximatelly the same cone area as two 6,5" woofers.

For comparison to R11 to be fair, you should add two of KC62 to LS60.
 

Daka

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I still don't understand who's the potential buyer.
"Hardcore" audiophiles would prefer active studio monitors
"Mainstream" audiophiles don't even want to touch actives and want to play with different amps and DACs.
Who's left?
People who want to have separate HT and audio setup. 6k for listening to music is not that much all things considered plus much cleaner setup you don’t need media cabinet for amp so more flexible.
But even people who invested mainly into HT might want better fronts that will work without AVR for music.
 

Daka

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R7/Reference 3 Meta would be the one to compare it with.
Four 5" woofers have aproximatelly the same cone area as two 6,5" woofers.

For comparison to R11 to be fair, you should add two of KC62 to LS60.
You haven’t checked the spec did you?
They dig deeper than r11. Then can go against ref 5. You forget each driver has dsp so it’s not just about surface area. Kc62 is prime example why and how.
 

phoenixdogfan

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You could create a new thread with the poll (survey) asking the original LS50 owners would they upgrade to LS60 if money was not an issue. ;)
The more I read, given that I already have first rate electronics, SVS Subs, and 4 LS 50's (2 Meta), the less likely it seems I would go for LS 60 Wireless especially considering the price, bass limitations, and Kef's spotty record for support.

If I wanted to upgrade, I might rather look at something like March Audio Sointuva's or even Ascend Acoustics Sierra LX's, and if I wanted to stay KEF and spend a lot of money, the Reference 1 Metas would probably be my choice.
 

Zvu

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You haven’t checked the spec did you?
They dig deeper than r11. Then can go against ref 5. You forget each driver has dsp so it’s not just about surface area. Kc62 is prime example why and how.

I can make 3" woofer go deeper than Reference 5 or R11 - but at what loudness ?

Does that mean we can compare them ?
 
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KMO

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You haven’t checked the spec did you?
They dig deeper than r11. Then can go against ref 5. You forget each driver has dsp so it’s not just about surface area. Kc62 is prime example why and how.

Not at high level they don't. There is extension there, sure, at normal levels, but not the same absolute amount. (And they're nowhere near the KC62 either.)

The graph above shows the LS60 pushing the limits of its bass:

index.php


This from KEF shows the R11 operating at normal level, and the response should pretty much just shift up with volume to its 111dB peak, without much bass reduction. (I've not found any real compression tests).

1652636319256.png

So, sure, the LS60 can be flatter from 80 down to 20 at normal level, but as you turn it up, it ends up dropping off steeper.

It will never be able to produce 30-50Hz at anything like the level an R11 can (at least 100-105dB, I'd guess).

(Although how many people need that much bass from main speakers, I don't know. I'd just use a subwoofer anyway.)
 

Daka

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I can make 3" woofer go deeper than Reference 5 or R11 - but at what looudness ?

Does that mean we can compare them ?
Again check the white paper linked on this sub. Of course we compare them at reference level +-3db, -6db and ls60 plays deeper than r11 it’s all there. So you can’t even compare it with r11 not to mention r7. Maybe someone will be kind to link it again
 

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Daka

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Not at high level they don't. There is extension there, sure, at normal levels, but not the same absolute amount. (And they're nowhere near the KC62 either.)

The graph above shows the LS60 pushing the limits of its bass:

index.php


This from KEF shows the R11 operating at normal level, and the response should pretty much just shift up with volume to its 111dB peak, without much bass reduction. (I've not found any real compression tests).

View attachment 206837
So, sure, the LS60 can be flatter from 80 down to 20 at normal level, but as you turn it up, it ends up dropping off steeper.

It will never be able to produce 30-50Hz at anything like the level an R11 can (at least 100-105dB, I'd guess).

(Although how many people need that much bass from main speakers, I don't know. I'd just use a subwoofer anyway.)
I’m talking about reference level not 100db. Who listens at 100db?? To me is just theoretical spec as I never ever went that high.
Yes there is limitation of loudness but at ref level they dig deeper than r11.
 

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Zvu

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Again check the white paper linked on this sub. Of course we compare them at reference level +-3db, -6db and ls60 plays deeper than r11 it’s all there. So you can’t even compare it with r11 not to mention r7. Maybe someone will be kind to link it again

Why don't you compare all of the Kef production line with some high end headphones ? They can dig even deeper than any of mentioned speakers and are point source also. It's all in specs.
 

Daka

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Not at high level they don't. There is extension there, sure, at normal levels, but not the same absolute amount. (And they're nowhere near the KC62 either.)

The graph above shows the LS60 pushing the limits of its bass:

index.php


This from KEF shows the R11 operating at normal level, and the response should pretty much just shift up with volume to its 111dB peak, without much bass reduction. (I've not found any real compression tests).

View attachment 206837
So, sure, the LS60 can be flatter from 80 down to 20 at normal level, but as you turn it up, it ends up dropping off steeper.

It will never be able to produce 30-50Hz at anything like the level an R11 can (at least 100-105dB, I'd guess).

(Although how many people need that much bass from main speakers, I don't know. I'd just use a subwoofer anyway.)
Plus thanks to dsp, I believe at lower volumes it will have much higher bass compared to passive speaker including r11 which rolls off fast
 

Daka

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Why don't you compare all of the Kef production line with some high end headphones ? They can dig even deeper than any of mentioned speakers and are point source also. It's all in specs.
That’s nonsense you’re spawning now. KEF specs are available for reference level and it’s clear as day what each can do. At that level r11 aren’t a match and thanks to dsp and active design you can’t compare surface area of woofers either.
I can understand you haven’t seen white paper yet and tried to make a educated guess as it’s not easily available (well, linked on this sub). But let’s leave it at that.
 

voodooless

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I’m talking about reference level not 100db.
But reference level is usually expressed as an average. Music has a crest factor of 6 to 20, so you’ll need to add that to whatever the “reference” is. So at 85 dB, that’s then peak of between 91 and 105dB.

Note that KEF noticed that crest factor in bass is relatively low, like 5~6 dB or so. But also note that bass is already much louder than anything else.

But equal loudness curve to the rescue for KEF: when loud, a lack of bass loudness will be less noticeable than at lower levels.

Funny though: a whole complex setup to remove distortion from bass, and then a system on top of it to add distortion again ;)
 
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