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Ripping CD collection

MickeyBoy

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While all my CDs are ripped and on my RAID server (accessible by everything in the house, over Samba/file systems or DLNA service on the server), my son (in his 30's) hates the idea of not having a physical object like a CD at hand...

He points out to me, things like printed artwork, sleeve notes, and "the fragility of everything needing a network and CPUs"..... He has a point, but on fragility, when we get a power cut every few years, he can't play a CD either, but in the same time my network and RAID system, and the multiple disk backups haven't failed me once. Hopefully, we're not about to have them all destroyed by EMP!

I have all my faves as FLACs and the rest as best possible MP3s, so the music all fits in less than 2TB.
Like your son I like physical media so I can follow the words or libretto of vocal music
I use jRiver for a few flacs ony pc, but would really like some advice on how to digitize the text when I am listening. Not to speak of the score!!
On TV no
 

oceansize

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looks decent, I don't see any bronzing (though without a comparison it's hard to say for sure on the color) or pitting. Is that disc not playable?
Not at all playable. It is the only one I've got where the printing on the label side has worked its way through to be visible on the playback side, though I also have a few that also became unplayable due to bronzing.
 

elvisizer

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Not at all playable. It is the only one I've got where the printing on the label side has worked its way through to be visible on the playback side, though I also have a few that also became unplayable due to bronzing.
weird, i have a ton of CDs where the label is visible through the data layer- they're all playable.
So you're saying that at one point the label was not visible? and over time the data layer became more transparent?
 

oceansize

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weird, i have a ton of CDs where the label is visible through the data layer- they're all playable.
So you're saying that at one point the label was not visible? and over time the data layer became more transparent?
Correct. When new, it played fine. I do remember trying to rip it with EAC a few years ago, but gave up after it had been running approx 10 hours.
 

krabapple

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CD deterioration is extremely rare. This is why most people who ever or still play CDs haven't encountered it.

CD unplayability is commonly due to user-caused physical damage.

The less they are played, the less chance of damage (assuming they are stored properly).

So, rip your CDs and then store them away 'just in case' they ever need re-ripping.

I chucked all the jewel cases, and put the discs in sleeves, in storage boxes, along with inserts. The exception is where the packaging goes beyond simple jewel casing.
 

oceansize

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CD deterioration is extremely rare. This is why most people who ever or still play CDs haven't encountered it.

CD unplayability is commonly due to user-caused physical damage.

The less they are played, the less chance of damage (assuming they are stored properly).

So, rip your CDs and then store them away 'just in case' they ever need re-ripping.

I chucked all the jewel cases, and put the discs in sleeves, in storage boxes, along with inserts. The exception is where the packaging goes beyond simple jewel casing.
It's rare, but not extremely so. I look after my CDs, but have had a handful fail due to bronzing snd the Godfathers one where the ink appears to have reacted with the CD.
 

DMill

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I remember ripping all my CDs. Had a be a few thousand of them. It took me months do it and had to compress them because hard drive space cost $$$ back then. Now with hi-res music online, it was a complete waste of time. CDs last a long time so long as they aren't subject to being left in a hot car, a water leak, or some kind of trauma.
 

DMill

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Also had a friend burn massive hours recording his LPs onto cassette so he could listen in his car. :) that had to be done in real time for anyone too young to remember.
 

Robin L

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I went to the closet today, searching for the cardboard box containing Solti/Chicago S. O.'s second Beethoven's 9th---ok performance, fantastic liner notes. I suspect it's gone on to pastures green. But the process allowed me to pull out a lot more stuff, and more interesting as well. I like ripped files for all the obvious reasons. But I realize there's something cool about encountering something one has forgotten. And the local library has used CDs for $1 a pop. Got my first Radiohead CD yesterday Weird, but cool.
 

DMill

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I went to the closet today, searching for the cardboard box containing Solti/Chicago S. O.'s second Beethoven's 9th---ok performance, fantastic liner notes. I suspect it's gone on to pastures green. But the process allowed me to pull out a lot more stuff, and more interesting as well. I like ripped files for all the obvious reasons. But I realize there's something cool about encountering something one has forgotten. And the local library has used CDs for $1 a pop. Got my first Radiohead CD yesterday Weird, but cool.
This conversation got me thinking about my CDs again, so I went into the basement and rummaged through a number of plastic bins last night. You make a really nice point about the liner notes and album art. To me it added to the mystique of the artists to be able to read along with lyrics and the art set a mood for what I was going to be listening to. LPs obviously did it best, but when cassette tapes came along the packaging of albums generally suffered. CDs allowed recored labels to once again offer more than just 50 minutes of music, but a really immersive experience. Today I stream music almost entirely, and have to say that even though it is really convenient, there is something missing from the experience compared to physical media. I'm sure it partly explains "why vinyl" which is discussed in other threads on this forum.
 

Roland68

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CD deterioration is extremely rare. This is why most people who ever or still play CDs haven't encountered it.

CD unplayability is commonly due to user-caused physical damage.

The less they are played, the less chance of damage (assuming they are stored properly).

So, rip your CDs and then store them away 'just in case' they ever need re-ripping.

I chucked all the jewel cases, and put the discs in sleeves, in storage boxes, along with inserts. The exception is where the packaging goes beyond simple jewel casing.
That's where you're wrong, unfortunately.
A not insignificant proportion of audio CDs show more or less serious signs of aging after only 10-20 years.
Just a few of the problems:
- Bronzing effect
- Aging due to room climate (temperature changes, humidity)
- Aging/permeability of the varnish/sealing layer
- Aging due to UV exposure
- Corrosion of the aluminium, silver, gold or other reflective layers
- Insufficient resistance to cleaning agents, alcohols, etc.
- Cracks in the material of the CDs due to the loss of plasticizers.

The biggest joke about this is that CDs are attacked by the plasticizers and solvents in the jewel cases, booklets and padding.
Especially the CDs from the companies that advertised the durability of their audio CDs in the 80s and 90s are defective very early.

The topic is easy to google, you will find hundreds of reports, also from various universities, research groups and scientists.
The statements on this can be broken down easily, the CD is unsuitable for long-term storage. Even today, no guarantees can be given by the manufacturers for more than 10-20 years. We're only talking about CD pressings here.

If your CDs change color or become translucent, rip them as soon as possible.
 
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itz_all_about_the_music

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I’m in the process of ripping my cd collection. And out of 1,000+ albums so far, I had a few (< 10) that I couldn’t rip without errors. Mostly cd-r, but also a couple of factory pressed ones. Even from some big labels. And some cd’s not that old. I was fortunate to find ways to get the music anyway, either as a download or by buying a new cd. But I’m even more convinced that ripping is the right thing to do to save my music collection.
I don't (yet) have a network storage device in my system, and do have several hundred CDs (not to mention even more in vinyl). Yes, I've ripped many in the past for use on a ScanDisk/earbuds player for use in the gym, etc. With that as an intro, I respectively ask what one means when stating "...he right thing to do to save my music collection." Was "save" used loosely? Is there a fear of outliving CD design life? Won't laser based CD players remain in the marketplace - or not? I ask to better understand the incentive and end game of those on this site who, perhaps unlike me, want it all on a network device for the convenience. (Or did I just answer my own question?)
 

krabapple

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Da liegst du leider falsch.
Ein nicht unerheblicher Anteil von Audio-CDs zeigt bereits nach 10-20 Jahren mehr oder weniger starke Alterungserscheinungen.
Nur einige der Probleme:
- Bräunungseffekt
- Alterung durch Raumklima (Temperaturänderungen, Feuchtigkeit)
- Alterung/Durchlässigkeit der Lack-/Versiegelungsschicht
- Alterung durch UV-Einwirkung
- Korrosion von Aluminium, Silber, Gold oder anderen reflektierenden Schichten
- Unzureichende Beständigkeit gegen Reinigungsmittel, Alkohole etc.
- Risse im Material der CDs durch den Verlust von Weichmachern.

Der größte Witz dabei ist, dass CDs von den Weichmachern und Lösungsmitteln in den Jewel Cases, Booklets und Polstern angegriffen werden.
Besonders die CDs von Firmen, die in den 80er und 90er Jahren mit der Langlebigkeit ihrer Audio-CDs geworben haben, sind sehr früh defekt.

Das Thema lässt sich einfach googeln, man findet Hunderte von Berichten, auch von verschiedenen Universitäten, Forschungsgruppen und Wissenschaftlern.
Die Aussagen dazu lassen sich leicht aufschlüsseln, die CD ist für eine Langzeitlagerung ungeeignet. Auch heute kann von den Herstellern keine Garantie über 10-20 Jahre gegeben werden. Wir reden hier nur von CD-Pressungen.

Wenn sich Ihre CDs verfärben oder durchscheinend werden, rippen Sie sie so schnell wie möglich.
(this post appeared in English in my email notification ..!)

Most studies of media longevity that I'm aware of focused on *recordable* CD (and DVD) media, not factory made commercial music CDs.

All studies I know of find that the main cause of commercially made CD deterioration is *user caused* -- either careless handling or improper storage. So I maintain, again, that spontaneous 'CD rot' for store-bought music CDs is extremely rare.

Please point me to a study or studies of commercial CD longevity that supports your claims. To have real salience, such studies would have to either be longitudinal -- studying the readability of a store-bought music CD over time, in real time -- or involve some sort of simulation of aging under 'typical' use conditions.
 

kchap

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(this post appeared in English in my email notification ..!)

Most studies of media longevity that I'm aware of focused on *recordable* CD (and DVD) media, not factory made commercial music CDs.

All studies I know of find that the main cause of commercially made CD deterioration is *user caused* -- either careless handling or improper storage. So I maintain, again, that spontaneous 'CD rot' for store-bought music CDs is extremely rare.

Please point me to a study or studies of commercial CD longevity that supports your claims. To have real salience, such studies would have to either be longitudinal -- studying the readability of a store-bought music CD over time, in real time -- or involve some sort of simulation of aging under 'typical' use conditions.
I only have two or three CDs that seem to be suffering degradation of the lacquer side but I do worry about future longevity of CDs.

Regarding packaging, I remember reading this in the nineties. Luckily a web search was easier than than I thought it would be.
Cheap Packaging
 

vco1

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I don't (yet) have a network storage device in my system, and do have several hundred CDs (not to mention even more in vinyl). Yes, I've ripped many in the past for use on a ScanDisk/earbuds player for use in the gym, etc. With that as an intro, I respectively ask what one means when stating "...he right thing to do to save my music collection." Was "save" used loosely? Is there a fear of outliving CD design life? Won't laser based CD players remain in the marketplace - or not? I ask to better understand the incentive and end game of those on this site who, perhaps unlike me, want it all on a network device for the convenience. (Or did I just answer my own question?)
No, "save" wasn't used loosely. I never expected this, but it turned out that a couple of the discs in my collection – a small percentage, but still – could not be read by several cd-rom drives. For some discs this was just a single track. Other discs couldn't be read (played?) at all. And mind you, these were factory-pressed cd's that have been properly stored in drawers (no direct sunlight) under normal conditions. So if this is what happens, I rather have a "backup" of them. Although I'm aware that won't last forever either, at least not without taking measures (using new hard discs every now and then, making backups, etc.).

One thing I noticed is that the quality of cd's (the physical medium, not the music on it ;-)) seems to got worse over time. Discs from the 90's appear to be more reliable than those from more recent years (2010-2022).
 

liquidman101

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I like CDs too. But these days for extracting the lossless audio, not for using in an actual CD player. In time you will find some CDs do deteriorate. They are made of a metal layer containing the data, laminated inside transparent plastic layers. Those transparent layers can get scratched, the layers can start to separate allowing the disc to warp and the metal layer to oxidize. People living in very humid and hot places will experience this more often. The best quality CDs have the metal layer made of gold inside very hard scratch resistant laminate. They might last 100s of years. The worst quality ones can start separating in a few months in a hot climate, and have very poor laminate which is prone to scratches.

Having ripped thousands of CDs I'd say that it's worth having a couple of different optical drives. Some drives have trouble reading SACD/CD hybrid discs, some can read a scratched disc better than another drive etc. The difference between physical drives makes more difference than which software you use. If you do encounter discs which won't rip well on more than one good drive then don't waste any time trying different speeds, insane numbers of reads and so on. You'll probably just shorten the lifeof or kill your optical drive. Buy a new CD instead.
I must admit I did not know that cds can deteriorate. I thought they were more or less bullet proof. I guess it just goes to show everything is ephemeral. I remember going a bit nuts once trying to work out how to archive music, photos etc. (most of which I never look at or listen to of course). I started off with multiple HDs only to have them fail - I plan to get professional help to get the data off them......... one day. I then thought SD cards would be my saviour (pun intended) but I lost a few of them when I moved house so thought that was a no go as well. I then moved on to minidisc - but it quickly went the way of the dodo (still have a player in good cond and some discs if anyone is interested). After that I decided I would use multiple free cloud storage accounts to save all my important digitised stuff - even some original works, you know, the unfinished novel or potential hit. But I lost most of the passwords so they are now history too until some alien of the future hacks into the accounts and encounters intense disappointment. I've discovered what I really need is a decent sized bookshelf, a robust set of drawers and a half-decent stereo system. If the LPs or Cds fail I'll just replace the buggers.
 

Robin L

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I must admit I did not know that cds can deteriorate. I thought they were more or less bullet proof. I guess it just goes to show everything is ephemeral. I remember going a bit nuts once trying to work out how to archive music, photos etc. (most of which I never look at or listen to of course). I started off with multiple HDs only to have them fail - I plan to get professional help to get the data off them......... one day. I then thought SD cards would be my saviour (pun intended) but I lost a few of them when I moved house so thought that was a no go as well. I then moved on to minidisc - but it quickly went the way of the dodo (still have a player in good cond and some discs if anyone is interested). After that I decided I would use multiple free cloud storage accounts to save all my important digitised stuff - even some original works, you know, the unfinished novel or potential hit. But I lost most of the passwords so they are now history too until some alien of the future hacks into the accounts and encounters intense disappointment. I've discovered what I really need is a decent sized bookshelf, a robust set of drawers and a half-decent stereo system. If the LPs or Cds fail I'll just replace the buggers.
CDs ARE MORE OR LESS BULLETPROOF.
But rip em anyway.

"The open palm of desire wants everything"
 

julian_hughes

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I must admit I did not know that cds can deteriorate. I thought they were more or less bullet proof. I guess it just goes to show everything is ephemeral. I remember going a bit nuts once trying to work out how to archive music, photos etc. (most of which I never look at or listen to of course). I started off with multiple HDs only to have them fail - I plan to get professional help to get the data off them......... one day. I then thought SD cards would be my saviour (pun intended) but I lost a few of them when I moved house so thought that was a no go as well. I then moved on to minidisc - but it quickly went the way of the dodo (still have a player in good cond and some discs if anyone is interested). After that I decided I would use multiple free cloud storage accounts to save all my important digitised stuff - even some original works, you know, the unfinished novel or potential hit. But I lost most of the passwords so they are now history too until some alien of the future hacks into the accounts and encounters intense disappointment. I've discovered what I really need is a decent sized bookshelf, a robust set of drawers and a half-decent stereo system. If the LPs or Cds fail I'll just replace the buggers.
Automated backup is something everyone with valuable data ought to be using. All disks die.
 
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