Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

[Dennis_FL]

Use X16 for volume control is possible, but has negative impact on output signal quality - signal/noise ratio.
see

Gustard X16 Balanced MQA DAC Review

there is no pre-amplifier function in this DAC, so no volume control. Well, the volume control kinda gives it Preamp function doesn't it? This can be connected directly to a power amp without a preamp in between, using it's built in volume control. Most DAC's with a 'DAC' mode simply fix the...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Using the X16 volume control for me works fine with balanced output and no preamp.

I have a preamp and when I use it (unbalanced), I can't tell the difference in SQ. I suppose, one can also use ROON for digital volume control.

 

[sqheaven]

Hi team,

I recently borrowed x16 from a friend, loved it on my head-fi setup, not so much on the HiFi. Joined the family and placed an order.

I ran into an issue where I heard sound crackles or stutters on a Windows10 laptop 3rd gen i7 16gig RAM, tested on a better work laptop 8th gen i7 16gig RAM, and the same thing happened. On Bluetooth doing LDAC, no stutter was observed at all.

I figured out that tidal exclusive mode runs in normal processing when checking on the task manager, I permanently set it to high. Secondly, someone suggested on this forum to remove the check on 'Give exclusive mode applications priority' in the Windows1o settings.

These two things have greatly removed the stutter, now I am feeling like Window10 is JUNK. I like the MQA sound, the convenience factor with Bluetooth is huge, it does PCM 96KHz, I guess 24bit.

I also played with the buffer settings and how it changes the latency, currently, a buffer of 128 samples gave me no stutter. If you increase the samples, input/output latency changes drastically. This is a sweet spot for me at 128 samples. The default setting is 512 samples. Also, used the USB which is directly soldered on the motherboard. Other USBs pick up mouse and USB HDD noises.

To be honest, I connected the DAC to my Marantz AVR's phono and listened to the same Tidal songs playing via Bluetooth, I absolutely liked the Tidal or Spotify going straight to the DAC rather than 2 stage D2A.

I hope these steps will helps someone. I used the driver 5. x which is the latest.

I am still testing to see if the DAC is 100%, I could only find a single user who returned his DAC, he made a youtube video. I don't think I need to do that since BT works fine, it's just the windows10 messing up with the process prioritization.

Any suggestions or feedback is most welcome.

Best Regards

 

[Bougle]

Anybody can check the phase output of the X16? When feeding directly my Neumann Kh80 speakers via XLR, the polarity is inverted according to Dirac Live measurements. I have checked the X16, and I have "Phase Invert" disabled (that is, pin 1 ground, 2 hot and 3 cold), but somehow the end result coming out of the speakers is inverted phase. May be there is a software mistake at the X16? It could be the Kh80s, but I am inclined to trust Neumann rather than Gustard.

Replying I know to an old question, but given my own experience I think it worth doing.

In short it appears that the user manual is wrong. My amps XLR inputs are wired to EIA Standard RS-297-A. Research told me that was previously known as the European / Japanese standard and hence I set Invert Polarity to Enabled per the manual (disabled being per the manual the American standard).

Anyway, the next time I power cycled the amp my speakers popped loudly and I started trouble shooting that, and worrying. That led me to double checking the manual and realising that it misstates the standards. European / Japanese is pin 2 hot and not as stated pin 3, likewise American is pin 3 hot not pin 2.

Presuming that the manual confused only the standards names and Disabled was Pin 2 hot, I.e. the now common EIA standard not the obsolete American, I tried power cycling the amp again. Problem fixed, no more popping, and hopefully no more risk to my speakers!

I hope this helps someone else, and perhaps, if they read this, Gustard might consider checking their manual! Or, someone here will tell me I’m really confused

 

[misterdog]

I am feeling like Window10 is JUNK

No issues here using Win10 from JRiver via USB.

 

[wisechoice]

Well my DSD problems with this DAC have returned, unfortunately. I'm hearing crackles at very low levels again, after upgrading the firmware almost a year ago to resolve the issue. It was resolved, but now it's back. Sigh. Anyone else experiencing a recurrence of the problem?

 

[Dennis_FL]

Well my DSD problems with this DAC have returned, unfortunately. I'm hearing crackles at very low levels again, after upgrading the firmware almost a year ago to resolve the issue. It was resolved, but now it's back. Sigh. Anyone else experiencing a recurrence of the problem?

I did...but I get a really bad white noise ... not a crackle. Only on DSD. When it goes away, it departs for weeks at a time.

I have tried all sorts of things, but haven't figured it out yet.

 

[wisechoice]

I did...but I get a really bad white noise ... not a crackle. Only on DSD. When it goes away, it departs for weeks at a time.

I have tried all sorts of things, but haven't figured it out yet.

That sounds like it could be DoP not being processed properly, either because another signal is getting mixed with the PCM container (e.g. another app is using the output as well in non-exclusive mode), or because the signal isn’t at exactly 0dB. You should be able to get around it by enabling exclusive mode or using the DAC in native DSD mode if one of those is the problem. If not, I’m afraid I don’t have any ideas. Maybe @gustard would be able to help us both, but it seems they haven’t been active here for a few months.

 

[Reynaldo]

I did...but I get a really bad white noise ... not a crackle. Only on DSD. When it goes away, it departs for weeks at a time.

I have tried all sorts of things, but haven't figured it out yet.

Just for testing, try using a computer with iOS system.

 

[Snert]

I did...but I get a really bad white noise ... not a crackle. Only on DSD. When it goes away, it departs for weeks at a time.

I have tried all sorts of things, but haven't figured it out yet.

I purchased an X16 a year ago. I spent months trying to figure out sound issue such as white noise, snaps, pops, and audio dropout's. I tried new cables, switching things around, and even built a Pi streamer, which I was planning on anyway. Still was having issues and more so with the Pi (with Volumio) than with the Roku. Some days would sound ok, others not. Even during the day it would work for a few hours and then not work. Plus over time it was getting worse. So... making a long story really short I figured to update my internet router firmware to see if that would help... which hadn't been updated in several years so couldn't hurt. That alone totally fixed the issue streaming from the Pi and Roku and have had no issues with sound quality since that moment. I don't understand why, but it worked. Also fixed improved picture quality for my security cameras.

 

[Dennis_FL]

I purchased an X16 a year ago. I spent months trying to figure out sound issue such as white noise, snaps, pops, and audio dropout's. I tried new cables, switching things around, and even built a Pi streamer, which I was planning on anyway. Still was having issues and more so with the Pi (with Volumio) than with the Roku. Some days would sound ok, others not. Even during the day it would work for a few hours and then not work. Plus over time it was getting worse. So... making a long story really short I figured to update my internet router firmware to see if that would help... which hadn't been updated in several years so couldn't hurt. That alone totally fixed the issue streaming from the Pi and Roku and have had no issues with sound quality since that moment. I don't understand why, but it worked. Also fixed improved picture quality for my security cameras.

I've had eureka moments like that. I changed cables and it worked for weeks, I tried RP3 with WiFi (Dietpi, Volumio) and RP4 (Ropieee 2.3) with ethernet and it would work for weeks but eventually fail. About three weeks ago, I went back to the original (Mac to Gustard via USB) and thus eliminating any WiFi issues when I play local DSD (256 DoP). So far, no issues. And a few days ago I bought a Mac Mini (M1) and am using it with a shorter USB cable.

So far no issues and my video (Emby) is really fast now.

I'm curious which player you use (Roon, JRiver, etc?)

 

[Snert]

I use a RP4 Model B with Volumio using WiFi. Streaming Tidal but now more Qobuz. Raspberry Pi power supply, in an Argon 1 case. I have learned that different Volumio versions have wonky characteristics... one 2.x version not working with Tidal very well - would not play so called master quality tracks at all. The DAC display changed to "unlock" for master tracks. Updating to version 3 took care of that. I did hook up the Pi to ethernet when I was trying to diagnose the issue last year - wired directly to the router - to see if that made any difference - and it did it was much worse. Since there was a change, that led me to update the router firmware. Then no more issues.

When cable experimenting - I don't have high end cables - I did find that USB cables made a LOT of difference in sound quality when I was having the issues that were remedied by the router update. The cables with a ferrite choke didn't work at all - no signal. Others cut out constantly or had more pops or snaps (most of these cable are the free ones that come with computer stuff). The best cable was a $1.99 short cable. After the router fix I was surprised to not find nearly as much difference in cable sound quality. However the Monoprice Monolith USB cable sounded so good that I could not imagine anything better so stuck with it. What I learned from that is the cables do make a difference (at least in cheap or free USB cables), and more of a difference when there are issues with the signal.

I wonder if music is downloaded when using a faulty signal that the file is doomed for eternity. If router firmware makes a difference while streaming then would a download file be corrupt as well... just a thought...

 

[Reynaldo]

I've had eureka moments like that. I changed cables and it worked for weeks, I tried RP3 with WiFi (Dietpi, Volumio) and RP4 (Ropieee 2.3) with ethernet and it would work for weeks but eventually fail. About three weeks ago, I went back to the original (Mac to Gustard via USB) and thus eliminating any WiFi issues when I play local DSD (256 DoP). So far, no issues. And a few days ago I bought a Mac Mini (M1) and am using it with a shorter USB cable.

So far no issues and my video (Emby) is really fast now.

I'm curious which player you use (Roon, JRiver, etc?)

Here after testing a lot I came back to what works very well.
Mac mini + Audirvana with Gustard X16.
Without any BUG.
I also use a short USB cable.

 

[Dennis_FL]

I wonder if music is downloaded when using a faulty signal that the file is doomed for eternity. If router firmware makes a difference while streaming then would a download file be corrupt as well... just a thought...

My DSD's are mostly not downloaded. I once thought that they may be a problem and when I got white noise, I compared them to upsampled CD ripped files using Roon's DSD upsampling. I got noise on both sources.

I'm pretty convinced it isn't my router (I did suspect it at one point).

I've had a request from Gustard. They wanted me to do this test next time it happened.

When there is dsd noise, do not stop the playback of the usb dsd, and do not switch the song, then immediately switch to the bluetooth input, and use the bluetooth connection to play that song (preferably with an android phone).
After the bluetooth playback sound appears, switch back to the usb immediately to see if the noise disappears.

I did this and the noise stopped. I never heard back from them. I suspect this was not serious and a joke on their part.


UPDATE: Well, the streak ended. I just played a DSD64 and got the white noise. This is with a short USB cable/Roon/MacMini/No USB hub/

I believe I've pretty much eliminated all but the Gustard. What else could it be? ( I don't have a Windows machine.....but I have tested two different Mac's now plus the Raspi 3 and 4). Reynaldo doesn't use Roon and maybe it's Roon? I have JRiver ---- maybe I'll try it for a month.

 

[Reynaldo]

I've used Roon and Jriver, both work very well, but for me the best is Audirvana.
These Chinese DACs are good, but I don't trust their durability and production. They often make internal changes without any warning.
Here I have another two DACs, the M1 from Musical Fidelity and the Oppo 205.
I'll use X16 as long as it works fine, when it starts to give problems it goes straight to the trash.
The support from most Chinese companies that manufacture these devices is very poor, especially if you live in countries far from China. I think Gustard after the release of X18 must not be doing very well.

 

[Dennis_FL]

I wonder if music is downloaded when using a faulty signal that the file is doomed for eternity. If router firmware makes a difference while streaming then would a download file be corrupt as well... just a thought...

When I get the noise. I turn the DAC on and off and then when I play the same DSD file, it is perfect.

 

[Reynaldo]

I wonder if music is downloaded when using a faulty signal that the file is doomed for eternity. If router firmware makes a difference while streaming then would a download file be corrupt as well... just a thought...

Most of my files are ISO of SACD, DSD 128 and 256.
I also have FLAC with 16/44, 24/44, 24/96, 24/192 and Qobuz, all working perfectly with Audirvana.

 

[wisechoice]

Well my DSD problems with this DAC have returned, unfortunately. I'm hearing crackles at very low levels again, after upgrading the firmware almost a year ago to resolve the issue. It was resolved, but now it's back. Sigh. Anyone else experiencing a recurrence of the problem?

Gustard support responded to my email about this issue, and sent me another firmware update. They claim the DSD issues have all been resolved. However, after applying the update, the (old, now new again) problem is still there. Sigh.

 

[Dennis_FL]

They also sent me an update...but it wasn't the firmware (my version number remains unchanged) and I didn't have to take the unit apart. It was, I think an update to the USB firmware. I had to use Windows (no Mac version) with the latest driver to update the X16 and since this update a few weeks ago, it has been quiet as a church mouse. Absolutely no noise with DSD. Maybe a USB handshake issue?

So, I think I will ask them what they did and if it affects anything else.

 

[wisechoice]

They also sent me an update...but it wasn't the firmware (my version number remains unchanged) and I didn't have to take the unit apart. It was, I think an update to the USB firmware. I had to use Windows (no Mac version) with the latest driver to update the X16 and since this update a few weeks ago, it has been quiet as a church mouse. Absolutely no noise with DSD. Maybe a USB handshake issue?

So, I think I will ask them what they did and if it affects anything else.

Glad your issues are resolved. I will double check, but I'm fairly sure the issue also appears over Toslink for me. I'm on a Mac, but the DAC is connected via USB to an RPi 4 Network Audio Adapter.

 

[Dennis_FL]

Glad your issues are resolved. I will double check, but I'm fairly sure the issue also appears over Toslink for me. I'm on a Mac, but the DAC is connected via USB to an RPi 4 Network Audio Adapter.

Have you tried different players?