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Review and Measurements of New Topping D50s DAC

doug2761

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New Problem (with D50s?) -- New high-frequency crackling noise occurs intermittently for a couple of seconds at a time, usually repeating several times over the course of an hour or two's listening. Does this sound familiar to any of you streaming experts?

The signal chain is Qobuz->Verizon Fios->router->wired Ethernet->BlueSound Node 2i->Topping D50s (via digital coax)->preamp->graphic equalizer->power amp->speakers. I've never heard this kind of noise from my CD player, turntable, or FM tuner, all connected to the same preamp, etc. The Node 2i, preamp, equlizer, amp, and speakers are all relatively new. The D50s and digital coax are the oldest links in this chain, having been in service for a few years. (I've reported other anomalies with the D50s here recently, but they were all resolved satisfactorily.)

Unfortunately (or perhaps fortunately!) the noise only occurs occasionally and (so far as I can tell) unpredictably, so I haven't been able to troubleshoot effectively. It can be an hour or more before the noise occurs. Today I tried streaming Qobuz directly from the Node 2i audio outputs to the preamp (bypassing the D50s) for an hour or so. I didn't hear any noise, but then I didn't hear any after I put the D50s back in the loop either for perhaps another half hour.

There are many possible sources of this intermittent noise, including Qobuz itself, the Node 2i, the (high-quality) digital coax link, the D50s itself, and the brand new (also high-quality) RCA cables from it to the preamp. If anyone can suggest a likely culprit and an appropriate diagnostic technique, I'm eager to isolate this issue. -- JClarkW
Not sure what you mean by high-freequency crackling but crackling in a digital stream, in my experience, is usually due to buffer underflow. Something in the data stream from Qobuz to the DAC is not able to keep up with feeding data to the DAC. As an experiment, try setting Qobuz to CD quality and see if the crackles go away. If still a problem then maybe try streaming Qobuz through a computer with the D50 connected via USB to that computer. If the crackling goes away then it's a buffering problem.
 

JClarkw

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>>Not sure what you mean by high-freequency crackling but crackling in a digital stream, in my experience, is usually due to buffer underflow.<<

doug2761 -- VERY helpful! My "crackling" sounds a lot like somebody crinkling Mylar wrapping paper in front of the speakers, but even higher in frequency -- no noticeable missing notes but a brief overlay of "crackle." Does that still sound like buffer underflow to you?

I do believe this has only happened on "HR" tracks from Qobuz, and then primarily at certain times of day, but I'll have to pay more attention when it's happening. I'll try your first experiment...

I don't know how to make the Internet feed faster, as the Node 2i is already connected (over a fairly long Cat 6A Ethernet cable) through a Gbit wired router to the >400Mbit (as measured with Speedtest at my computer) Internet feed from Verizon FIOS. I thought the digital coax between the Node 2i and D50s would be the cleanest way, but I haven't tried the optical route (which was discouraged with the Node 2i by amirm). Your opinion?

All that said, I have noticed some unexplained slow-downs on my computer (also wired) during Zoom sessions, where it's telling me my own Internet connection is "unstable." I didn't think this should ever happen and haven't figured it out yet...

>>...maybe try streaming Qobuz through a computer with the D50 connected via USB to that computer. If the crackling goes away then it's a buffering problem.<<

I'm afraid I don't know how to do this. I don't believe I have any way to send the PCM stream from my computer (the Lenovo P1 Gen2 is a pretty fast PC) over USB. I suppose I would have to have a special driver... It's also a bit difficult to arrange, but if you really believe that would be less underflow-prone, then can you suggest a way to do it?

Very Best Regards -- JClarkW
 

JClarkw

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...crackling in a digital stream, in my experience, is usually due to buffer underflow...
Another question would be, where is (are) the buffer(s) of concern? In the D50s, in the Node 2i, or both? I'm pretty ignorant about how all of this actually works... -- JClarkW
 

Killingbeans

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Another question would be, where is (are) the buffer(s) of concern? In the D50s, in the Node 2i, or both?

The D50s doesn't have a buffer. It gets a PCM stream from the Node 2i. The trouble happens somewhere between Qobuz and the Node 2i.
 

Killingbeans

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I don't believe I have any way to send the PCM stream from my computer (the Lenovo P1 Gen2 is a pretty fast PC) over USB. I suppose I would have to have a special driver...

I think it's just plug and play? There's a custom Thesycon driver you can install, but it's just for better DSD support?
 

doug2761

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I don't believe I have any way to send the PCM stream from my computer (the Lenovo P1 Gen2 is a pretty fast PC) over USB. I suppose I would have to have a special driver... It's also a bit difficult to arrange, but if you really believe that would be less underflow-prone, then can you suggest a way to do it?
What I meant by sending the PCM stream to the DAC from the computer is to just connect the DAC to your computer using USB. I doubt that you'll need a special driver. These USB DACs are pretty much plug and play these days.

Music is much lower bandwidth than video but both still need a connection that is stable. If the crackling is only happening when you are trying to play HD tracks from Qobuz then it's very likely that it's a network problem.

In your setup, the BlueSound device is streaming the music file and feeding the downstream DAC. The buffering happens in the BlueSound. If you connect your computer to the DAC via USB then your computer will be doing the buffering. Trying the computer directly will help you figure out if the problem is with the BlueSound or if it happens with computer too. Not sure if the BlueSound has USB out that you can use to your DAC. If it does then I'd suggest using that. Connecting over coax may force the BlueSound to do a sample rate conversion.
 

JClarkw

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Connecting over coax may force the BlueSound to do a sample rate conversion.
Doug2761 -- Thanks again for the mini-tutorial. The Node 2i does not have a USB output, just audio, coax, and optical.

Not sure what you mean by the statement quoted above, but I suppose it must deliver to the D50s whatever sample rate is coming down from Qobuz, since the DAC is just converting that to analog. Right? Wouldn't the optical output be the same in that regard?

Is the audio output generally expected to be less prone to buffer underflow? The Node 2i must surely be doing the same thing to pass the PCM to its own internal DAC. Right? (I know I've heard actual dropouts at my other location, where the Node 2i must get its stream over WiFi and I use the analog output to my preamp, but I've never noticed the crackling there... -- JClarkW
 

doug2761

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Perhaps it's time to just do some experimenting to figure it out. You've got choices and I've outlined some ideas you can try. Once you've done some work and narrowed it down to a specific component you can figure it out from there. At some point the theorizing and pontificating just consumes oxygen.
 

JClarkw

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D50s is know to have issue with digital coax
Interesting! I hadn't noticed that in this thread (but it's a very long thread!). I'd like to look it up; can you give a reference?

Is the optical route regarded as more reliable between the D50s and the Node 2i? (I thought I'd read somewhere that optical was generally avoided by audiofiles...)

Best Regards -- JClarkW
 

Berwhale

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Interesting! I hadn't noticed that in this thread (but it's a very long thread!). I'd like to look it up; can you give a reference?

Is the optical route regarded as more reliable between the D50s and the Node 2i? (I thought I'd read somewhere that optical was generally avoided by audiofiles...)

Best Regards -- JClarkW

I ran my D50s over optical for many months to break a ground loop between my PC and the DAC. It worked perfectly.
 

sputnik69

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For the DAC+bluetooth.
Is it worth to pay extra for d50s over dx3 pro plus?
I can get dx3 pro plus for 212 USD and d50s for 282.7 USD
I like d50s for the usb power but I have a feeling that I'll not hear the difference.

I'll use it as a dac for Monoprice THX 887
 

RHO

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For the DAC+bluetooth.
Is it worth to pay extra for d50s over dx3 pro plus?
I can get dx3 pro plus for 212 USD and d50s for 282.7 USD
I like d50s for the usb power but I have a feeling that I'll not hear the difference.

I'll use it as a dac for Monoprice THX 887
I don't think you will be able to hear a difference.
 

RHO

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That's what I'm thinking.
It's more like an sanity check :)
I'm running the DX3 pro (not the plus) as a DAC and can't complain about it. I would expect the plus version to perform just the same if not a little better.
 

JClarkw

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I ran my D50s over optical for many months to break a ground loop between my PC and the DAC. It worked perfectly.
Dear Berwhale -- How high did you push the bit rates over your optical cable?

I switched from digital coax to optical between my BlueSound Node 2i and my D50s, and it seemed to work fine for a while, but more recently I'm occasionally having what sounds like high-frequency "static" -- not the same as the earlier "crackling" -- over the music, apparently only at sampling frequencies above 88.1 kHz. (This is Qobuz limited by the Node 2i to 96 kHz. All I really know is that the D50s reports 96 kHz and the Node 2i says "HR" when this usually happens. So far I haven't diagnosed further.)

Actually the noise sounds more like some kind of RFI interference than "buffer underflow." No actual dropouts so far. -- JClarkW
 

Berwhale

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Dear Berwhale -- How high did you push the bit rates over your optical cable?

I switched from digital coax to optical between my BlueSound Node 2i and my D50s, and it seemed to work fine for a while, but more recently I'm occasionally having what sounds like high-frequency "static" -- not the same as the earlier "crackling" -- over the music, apparently only at sampling frequencies above 88.1 kHz. (This is Qobuz limited by the Node 2i to 96 kHz. All I really know is that the D50s reports 96 kHz and the Node 2i says "HR" when this usually happens. So far I haven't diagnosed further.)

Actually the noise sounds more like some kind of RFI interference than "buffer underflow." No actual dropouts so far. -- JClarkW

I ran the D50s at 96k (set by TosLink output device in Windows OS)
 

caccarot81

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Hi Guys,I purchased Topping D50s and I've some questions:
I will Use Foobar2000 so I have to go to the manufacturer’s website and download ASIO drivers?
What about The firmware?I need to doenlaod the last version?
Thanks
 

RHO

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Hi Guys,I purchased Topping D50s and I've some questions:
I will Use Foobar2000 so I have to go to the manufacturer’s website and download ASIO drivers?
What about The firmware?I need to doenlaod the last version?
Thanks
I don't think you will absolutely need the drivers.
If you want to use ASIO to playback DSD you will need to install them and configure FB2000 to use them.
That will prevent you from using EQ outside of FB2000.
 
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