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Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 29 5.6%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 488 93.5%

  • Total voters
    522

Tangband

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In my opinion the main reason Genelec use a cast aluminium construction for the cabinet is due to the rounded construction to ameliorate edge diffraction which would be impossible to construct in mdf, it could be made in carbon fibre and the sound tailored by use of various densities/epoxies used, you could have a choice of surface finishes and lay up design which would be pretty cool.

Neumann designs are basic box construction so no need nor advantage to aluminium construction.
The aluminium boxes of genelec pushes the cabinet vibrations upwards to a higher frequency than plain MDF. The box walls are stiffer.
In my opinion, as a former DIY:er, the sound always gets better if you can raise the freq of the resonanses with a stiffer cabinet.

The aluminum cabinett also act as a shield for RFI radiation and thats a very good thing for the inbuilt electronics.

A MDF box have no RFI shielding . Its like listening to an amplifier without alu- box.
Does this matter ? I dont know if you can hear a difference.

 
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Pearljam5000

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KH420 is more than double than KH310
Question is if you add 2 not so expensive subs like SVS for example how close are you to KH420 sound
Screenshot_20220504-075752_Chrome.jpg
 

thewas

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The aluminium boxes of genelec pushes the cabinet vibrations upwards to a higher frequency than plain MDF. The box walls are stiffer.
In my opinion, as a former DIY:er, the sound always gets better if you can raise the freq of the resonanses with a stiffer cabinet.
As in another discussion we had (1, 2, 3) both assumptions are not necessary valid as usually aluminium enclosures are made quite thinner and for example just rising the modal frequencies to the mid region can be psychoacoustically more problematic, damping factor is very important where a metal can be disadvantageous compared to a composite material like MDF.
 

Frgirard

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As in another discussion we had (1, 2, 3) both assumptions are not necessary valid as usually aluminium enclosures are made quite thinner and for example just rising the modal frequencies to the mid region can be psychoacoustically more problematic, damping factor is very important where a metal can be disadvantageous compared to a composite material like MDF.
The MDF is unusable to made the genelec boxes.
The big genelec speakers stay in MDF.

It will be good to proove with measurements the difference between MDF and aluminum.
 

lherrm

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The MDF is unusable to made the genelec boxes.
The big genelec speakers stay in MDF.

It will be good to proove with measurements the difference between MDF and aluminum.
If it's not the exact same speaker that is either in MDF or aluminium (i.e. not the only difference), then you won't be able to conclude anything about the difference of material.
 

Frgirard

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If it's not the exact same speaker that is either in MDF or aluminium (i.e. not the only difference), then you won't be able to conclude anything about the difference of material.
This is I think so. Only assumption.
 

Frank Dernie

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Lol
It's that bad?
I'm afraid so.

Manufacturing cost is not just material.
Older designs may or may not use more expensive drivers.
The potential for room correction is built into the DSP crossover of the Genelecs but the software to exploit it is not included in the price.
I don't see why a co-axial mid-tweeter would be more expensive than the dome mid and separate tweeter, though it could be.

So even an engineer experienced in manufacturing needs a lot more factual data before making the statements you somehow felt the need to express.
 

Tangband

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The aluminium boxes of genelec pushes the cabinet vibrations upwards to a higher frequency than plain MDF. The box walls are stiffer.
In my opinion, as a former DIY:er, the sound always gets better if you can raise the freq of the resonanses with a stiffer cabinet.

The aluminum cabinett also act as a shield for RFI radiation and thats a very good thing for the inbuilt electronics.

A MDF box have no RFI shielding . Its like listening to an amplifier without alu- box.
Does this matter ? I dont know if you can hear a difference.

Can someone comment on the fact that a aluminium cabinet protects the electronic from RFI pollution, a MDF cabinet dont.
 

Tangband

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As in another discussion we had (1, 2, 3) both assumptions are not necessary valid as usually aluminium enclosures are made quite thinner and for example just rising the modal frequencies to the mid region can be psychoacoustically more problematic, damping factor is very important where a metal can be disadvantageous compared to a composite material like MDF.
You are right that a stiffer cabinet pushes the resonanses uppwards in frequency but you are wrong about that this fact is more problematic. Its exactly the opposite - the loudspeaker cabinet will sound better , the higher in freq the resonanses are .
I have been listening togethet with a number of people ( other DIY:er ) and all agrees on this .
Releasing delayed cabinet resonanses at lower frequensies are the absolute worse you kan imagine in a cabinet, soundwise.

Thewas- have you done any listening tests at all for yourself, or are you just saying that more damping , and resonances at a lower freq should sound better ?
 
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hege

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Can someone comment on the fact that a aluminium cabinet protects the electronic from RFI pollution, a MDF cabinet dont.
Well it's not like the components are screwed directly on MDF, there's atleast metal backplate if not even enclosure.
 

Pearljam5000

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I'm afraid so.

Manufacturing cost is not just material.
Older designs may or may not use more expensive drivers.
The potential for room correction is built into the DSP crossover of the Genelecs but the software to exploit it is not included in the price.
I don't see why a co-axial mid-tweeter would be more expensive than the dome mid and separate tweeter, though it could be.

So even an engineer experienced in manufacturing needs a lot more factual data before making the statements you somehow felt the need to express.
*Well the drivers are 10 years old
*KH310 has the same drivers minus the woofer and costs less than half
*The Ones drivers are developed from the ground up, cabinets also and are new
*Aluminum of this quality should cost more than MDF
So i don't think I'm 100% wrong here
Obviously these are just assumptions but other opinions are also just assumptions
 

fineMen

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It is very helpful to play around with two speakers, measurements and equalisation. The differences of similar designs with different chassis is a lot smaller than most people would guess.
But the 8361 and kh420 are not very similar designs.
The 420 looks a bit rough in comparison, but You might acknowledge how small the deviations in the simulated (!!) in-room response (PIR) are. Once e/q'ed to the same IR response, the on-axis direct sound would only differ by a single dB with some dips n' peaks here and there.

What is the on-axis sound made for?

It mostly generates the stereo-pan, but the 'timbre' is mostly derived perceptually from the IR response. So, does a dB in on-axis response really do something to the stereo-panorama?

How would the stereo-pan change when turning the head slightly, listening ever so slightly off-center pp.? Relevance of a single dB?

Where both differ vastly is the authority of the bass measured by the distortion, and subsequent intermodulation of the lower midrange. Nobody measures it. Hence people tell, the Genelec was weak, muddy, probably due to "reflection of bass energy in the coax plate", or so. Nice guess. But better to support the Genelec with a bass that would go up to at least 150Hz--no "sub".

Both speakers are exceptional, and a lot better than any audiophile product for the same price. I wonder why people discuss the tiniest differences, while not being willing to pay the price: "dosn't fit my furniture". (not You)
 

Frgirard

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*Well the drivers are 10 years old
*KH310 has the same drivers minus the woofer and costs less than half
*The Ones drivers are developed from the ground up, cabinets also and are new
*Aluminum of this quality should cost more than MDF
So i don't think I'm 100% wrong here
Obviously these are just assumptions but other opinions are also just assumptions
Aluminum of this quality: Assumption or data?
We are on ASR not Head hifi.
 

DSJR

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May I add that there are almost certainly hidden expenses when 'costing' a product. I doubt Neumann would sell as many 420's as they do 310's, so the margin can probably be less on the latter. Custom drive units often have to be ordered by the several hundred at a time (SB work that way I do know) so that 10" bass driver may cost multiples of the one used in the 310 for all I know due to volume of orders rather than material terms. Logistics has been a nightmare these last two years for heavy lumps shipped around the world but it may be getting better now, oil costs notwithstanding and of course raw materials costs are escalating at a huge rate currently I gather.
 
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