Neumann KH420 Review (Studio Monitor)

[Ajax]

I think my ADAM monitors came with a 7 year warranty which has long past, but everything is still working beautifully. They are 11 years old now, but I had those same worries when I bought them. Of course replacement parts are also still available for them, but overpriced. This model/line is no longer made. If I had it to do over again, I’d get the same. Several of my pieces of Home theater equipment have failed in that time. Particularly amps and BlueRay players. None of my ADAM monitors have. My Marantz brain has been having issues with the volume knob for years. Works fine from the remote. It’s of a similar vintage. Now I’ve probably jinxed them.

I've had me Adam A7 monitors for a similar time fed from a Benchmark Media DAC in my home office. Excellent simple system that is still going strong after 10+ years, cannot recommend either company highly enough. Wonderful sound and wonderful build quality.

 

[test1223]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

The 8361 is an almost perfect speaker. The KH420 is an older design and more similar to a smaller version of the Genelec 1237.
I would choose the 1237 over the KH420 if the slightly bigger box is no problem, since it costs almost the same as the KH420.

 

[MZKM]

the measurements are for Bateman or an Avenger.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Why would someone select this over a Genelec 8361? Why would someone select the 8361 instead?

What measurements or features or engineering aspects are better on this?

Personally I wouldn’t but not for SQ reasons, they are almost certainly pretty close there.

 

[Ajax]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

My experience differs, no issues after 10+ years with Adam A7. The beauty of active speakers is having the amplification AFTER the cross over and reducing all that wasted energy through heat loss.

The simplicity, synergy and sound quality for an active speaker IMO far outweighs any downside.

 

[Robbo99999]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

Is there any "data" out there regarding how long different active speakers tend to last? I wonder if it comes down to hours of use or playback volume (or other variables)? How long did your various active speakers last?

 

[al2002]

The now longer discontinued O500C was a bigger main monitor (65 kg) which had also a switchable FIR linear phase filter, had the luck to hear it in both modes and direct comparison to all the other Neumann monitors (KH80, 120, 310, 420 without and with subs) two times at their development centre in Germany in optimised placements, room acoustics and filter settings. SNIP...

Thanks thewas.

Anyone know why the O 500 was discontinued? Poor sales, perhaps?

Was it reviewed in the German audio press?

 

[3125b]

Is there any "data" out there regarding how long different active speakers tend to last?

Good question. I just tend to look at the used market, although that is far from a reliable statistic without knowing any real numbers.

Among the really old models Genelec seems to dominate, there is a sheer endless number of old model speakers for sale, many of them seem to have been used professionally (especially 10XX series), meaning long operating hours.
Klein + Hummel is also often available as are some others, even really cheap models from manufacturers like Samson seem to be able to last a decade or two at least some of the time.

 

[Robbo99999]

Good question. I just tend to look at the used market, although that is far from a reliable statistic without knowing any real numbers.

Among the really old models Genelec seems to dominate, there is a sheer endless number of old model speakers for sale, many of them seem to have been used professionally (especially 10XX series), meaning long operating hours.
Klein + Hummel is also often available as are some others, even really cheap models from manufacturers like Samson seem to be able to last a decade or two at least some of the time.

Yeah, I can kinda see the logic in the idea that if there are a lot of used & old active speakers for sale on ebay that this can be equated to the fact they're still functioning.....so I think that's a good way of guaging it roughly. I use my JBL 308p mkii active speakers everyday for music & TV (mostly TV & movie), I've had them since 2020....ha they've lasted 2 yrs so far, may they last longer too! I can certainly understand top brands like Genelec being in it for the long haul, inasmuch as they want their products to be ultra reliable & last a long time, but would be interesting to know how long budget monitor models are likely to last from JBL & other manufacturers. I don't see a lot of unreliability in any of the consumer electronics I own or have owned.....I'd expect these 308p to last 10yrs, heaven knows if I'll keep them that long!

 

[Frank Dernie]

My active speakers are 7 years old and still work as well as they did when new but they are DSP driven and are hardware incompatible with the latest firmware which is why I wouldn’t go with DSP built into the speaker again, My passive speakers are 25 years old and have been replaced by a different model, so probably no different really.
The main thing is they keep working as well as they ever did without updates.

 

[Robbo99999]

My active speakers are 7 years old and still work as well as they did when new but they are DSP driven and are hardware incompatible with the latest firmware which is why I wouldn’t go with DSP built into the speaker again, My passive speakers are 25 years old and have been replaced by a different model, so probably no different really.
The main thing is they keep working as well as they ever did without updates.

Which active speakers you got there?

 

[Vintage57]

Is there any "data" out there regarding how long different active speakers tend to last? I wonder if it comes down to hours of use or playback volume (or other variables)? How long did your various active speakers last?

In my 5.1 system I have the ATC SCM50A's as LCR and SCM20A' for RR and LR. They have been on since 2004. That may not be Green of me but I believe that it is best for the electronic components.

I've only had my Neumanns since 2019, so I'd say it's too soon to tell.

If you're looking at the brands referred to and recommended in ASR, longevity is not a concern

 

[Frank Dernie]

Which active speakers you got there?

First production Devialet Phantom silver.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Thanks thewas.

Anyone know why the O 500 was discontinued? Poor sales, perhaps?

Was it reviewed in the German audio press?

There is this rather essayistic article from 2006: https://www.professional-audio.de/test-monitor-klein-hummel-o-500-co-900/
The earliest Sound&Recording review i know is over the K+H O410 (the predecessor of the KH420). I don´t know if they reviewed the O500C also.

 

[Pearljam5000]

The 8361 is an almost perfect speaker. The KH420 is an older design and more similar to a smaller version of the Genelec 1237.
I would choose the 1237 over the KH420 if the slightly bigger box is no problem, since it costs almost the same as the KH420.

Which one would you choose 8361 or 1237?

 

[test1223]

Which one would you choose 8361 or 1237?

It is a near to midfield speaker (8361) and a mid to far field speaker (1237) therefore both can be the better choice.

 

[DWI]

So all that talk you read about with hifi reviews “These (insert speaker of choice) reproduce the sound as the artist/producer/engineer intended" is a moot point if the average hi-fi consumer doesn’t care about accuracy in reproduction.

My comment regarding shiny veneers/glitzy equipment wasn’t directed at yourself, apologies if my intention wasn’t clearly defined.



Frank said it better than I did.

I agree. I'm not one for reviews but don't recall seeing “these (insert speaker of choice) reproduce the sound as the artist/producer/engineer intended" in print. Who knows unless you were there? Does that even matter? I do have several commercial releases of live acoustic (classical) performances having attended the recorded performance, I enjoy them for what they are, I don't start trying to think how it compared to the live event.

I listen to speakers and make subjective judgements as described by Neumann based on how I like music at home to sound. I know its subjective because I have friends who have made different choices, some with professional monitors, which I don't like. I've heard quite a few monitors from the likes of ATC, PMC, B&W, incredibly revealing, I get what they give as a professional tool to mix and master recordings, I just don't much enjoy listening to them, and I'm not going to tell myself I should be using them because they measure better (if they do).

I think my approach is much as Neumann described as the difference between professional and consumer choices, and I also agree with @Frank Dernie 's explanation. I don't agree you can use "high fidelity" rigidly. There are very accurate speakers generally considered uncoloured, and some are a much more relaxing listen than others. I prefer the more relaxing ones, but it doesn't mean they lack in power and dynamics when needed. They can reproduce the music I like, and I have no doubt the Neumann KH420 could do a much better job of lots of music I would never listen to, which doesn't bother me at all.

My room has some acoustic treatment and I have measured it. There are no horrible or unpleasant peaks. I have fixed the minor issues with the bass with DSP, and remeasured it, but I could not hear the difference so I turned the DSP off. The brain fixes quite a lot on its own. I had professional help setting up the speakers, which made a tremendous difference in getting them to image properly and remove some masking by the bass as they were about 6 inches too close to the rear wall.

 

[FeddyLost]

Interesting that so many members' comments refer to incorporating subs with such a large monitor, one that obviously goes very low on its own with high SPL, and does not "need" them.

Two reasons:
1) room interaction (like optimal placement for mains is not the same for LF source)
2) bass quality (GD of ports, IMD at high SPL, etc)

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

Bryston offers 20Y warranty, but their activated system will be extremely expensive.
All serious studio brands offer long service life of their equipment and often they are extremely conservative in their choise of components. ATC is the good example.

Anyone know why the O 500 was discontinued?

Too expensive and complicated for what they offer compared to classic solutions, I think.
Reliability also must be questionable with such a lot of computing power inside.

 

[RobL]

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

I am not in the least bit interested in spending my money on active loudspeakers, especially internally tri-amplified.

In my past experience there will be a day in the future when the internal amplification fails, and when that day comes I have already learned the bitter truth that the correct replacement amplifier(s) will no longer be available from the OEM. This one will be even more complex to replace with what plate amps will be available for purchase at that time, and that will not fit/work properly, such that $11,000 becomes a total loss (including the cost of the speaker grills, but not the sales tax). I would rather buy passive speakers that will last several decades and are simple to replace the amplification for.

OTOH, if the OEM is offering a 20 year warranty, or even a solid guarantee in writing that replacement internal amplifiers will be stocked in inventory for at least 20 years, then I might become interested in purchasing active speakers. Funny though that none offer such a warranty/guarantee. I guess active loudspeakers are just another example of premature obsolescence.

FWIW, JBL and EV already left me stranded in this way...

I have a pair of 1032A’s, manufacture date is 2007 so 15 years and counting. Working great, but as far as I’m aware Genelec is still servicing these as needed. The model is actually still in production albeit as the “C” iteration. Class D amps now but drivers and cabinet are still the same. I actually just got a pair of grills for mine from Genelec.

 

[Tangband]

The 8361 is an almost perfect speaker. The KH420 is an older design and more similar to a smaller version of the Genelec 1237.
I would choose the 1237 over the KH420 if the slightly bigger box is no problem, since it costs almost the same as the KH420.

1. Loudspeakercabinet material : Genelec 8361 - Metal, Neumann KH420 - Wood LRIM
Does this difference matter ?

2. Genelec - dsp crossover , Neumann - active analog crossover
Does this difference matter ? Is analog better sounding than digital ?

3. Genelec - digital input eliminating the need for A/D at the input, feeding the dsp crossover directly with a digital signal. Neumann - no A/D or D/A needed.
Is there any advantages in sound depending on how this is done? Is A/D and D/A needed in a dsp a bad thing for sound quality ? Or is it better ?

4. Genelec - GLM dsp room correction inbuilt. Neumann - no room correction.
Do you really need room correction ? Maybe its better to optimise the loudspeaker placement ?

5. How is the second hand market ? How much do you loose after , say, 5 years of use and you want to sell them ?

This are some questions one could tell yourself…

Otherwise - the measurements shows they are very alike. Really good loudspeakers.